MF 165 water in piston/hydraulic lock & stuck injectors

So, we got a whole bunch of rain here in central Texas over the last month and some of it found it's way down the exhaust pipe on my 165 and into one or more cylinders. The flapper must have blown open or what have you.

I tried starting it, so I'm well aware I may be looking at a bent rod or crank. I've got the cowling all off and the fuel tank pulled so I can get the injectors out to roll it over and see if I really messed up or whether I'm going to get lucky.

Long story short, I can't get the injectors to bust loose. Tried a pair of screwdrivers under the mounting bosses, tried a 2-jaw slide hammer puller. Tried tapping left and right on it and repeating the slide hammer/pry action. I've got no movement whatsoever. I don't really want to pull any harder at it for fear of breaking something.

I seem to remember reading somewhere when I first diagnosed the hydraulic lock issue that double-nutting the injector studs and pulling them then giving the injectors a tap and twist might work, but I can't get enough thread in the second nut to get the stud loose. I can probably get them out if that's the best option, but before I spend a bunch of time at it, I figured I'd ask if I'm overlooking something or if there's some other trick.

Thanks

Also,

Are the dust/water boots for the injector bore available anywhere? A quick search hasn't turned up any.

Hello,
Yes, there should be seals fitted around the injector at the point where it enters the head. The cause of not being
able to remove the injectors might be a combination of rust and carbon. I think that the best option would be to remove
the studs. Have you tried putting a thinner nut underneath the full thickness one? The studs are not normally tight. A
small Stilson might be helpful. If you can remove the studs then it would be worth making a sort of right-angle peg
spanner to suit the injectors. If seals are fitted you should be able to lift the seals enough to squirt some
penetrating spray in and let them soak overnight. With a peg spanner you can control the amount of force that you apply
to remove them. Once they have turned a little you are on your way.
Let us know how you get on.
DavidP, South Wales

David P had to search the planet for replacement rods and pistons when I rebuilt my hydro locked 212 gas in an MF30, I think he located what I needed in the People's Paradise of Outer Kaffiristan. Well really, Niagara Falls Canada... some Perkins parts are getting rare, so we got to be careful to never break anything ever again...
Does yours have glow plugs? That would be an easier fight to relieve compression.
I suppose if it wasn't a vertical muffler, we'd be asking how to take apart a tractor caught in a grassfire....

Injector dust shield is part # 732 824 M1

Cat bought out perkins a few years ago

I only tried one stud, but it was in there pretty good. I'll try using red loc-tite on 'em, that's worked in the past.

I think I'll just cut the seal lip, they're pretty stiff and already cracked in places. If I can't find OE, I think I can come up with some rubber to do the same job. It's going to be Saturday before I can get back on it.

Thanks!

(quoted from post at 06:53:00 11/23/15) Hello,
Yes, there should be seals fitted around the injector at the point where it enters the head. The cause of not being
able to remove the injectors might be a combination of rust and carbon. I think that the best option would be to remove
the studs. Have you tried putting a thinner nut underneath the full thickness one? The studs are not normally tight. A
small Stilson might be helpful. If you can remove the studs then it would be worth making a sort of right-angle peg
spanner to suit the injectors. If seals are fitted you should be able to lift the seals enough to squirt some
penetrating spray in and let them soak overnight. With a peg spanner you can control the amount of force that you apply
to remove them. Once they have turned a little you are on your way.
Let us know how you get on.
DavidP, South Wales

Click to expand...

No glow plugs, unfortunately.

I'm planning on building a new exhaust manifold with a water trap so this can't happen again.

The 4.203 uses the same rod, and piston as the 3.152. The 4.203 is a basically just a 3.152 with a extra cylinder.

Yes, fortunately all the parts are readily available for the AD3.152/AD4.203

I broke apart the old injector seals and soaked the bores in kroil today, hopefully that will do it.

(quoted from post at 12:21:37 11/25/15) The 4.203 uses the same rod, and piston as the 3.152. The 4.203 is a basically just a 3.152 with a extra cylinder.

Click to expand...

Does the engine turn over now? If not, kroil won't help, the rod must be bent. If it was settin a year yeah, not a couple weeks of wet rust. Atleast a hydrolock happens in an instant, so the crank should be OK.
Perkins rods are 'almost' one size fits all, but mine had 2 cylinders that had to come out with a sledge hammer, that was a hunt!
If it don't spin with the starter, take the oil pan off. You got no choice.
I know I posted pics of the mess I had in the hydrolocked 212, in 2011? Might be in the archives here. But I was told it rolled into a creek while running, deep enough to suck in H2O. And I bought it 2 or 3 years later. Now that was a mess.

I'd like to know what's up with YT, I can't even upload old pics into modern view.
I can't find my old posts on archives, but I had them in files.
Good luck!!!

It's not the crank that's currently stuck, the injectors are stuck in their bores, preventing me from letting the water out.

Since it could be only one cylinder is full of water, and on the compression stroke you can try to turn the engine backwards. If the engine will turn backwards it will decompress the cylinder then the next time the piston goes up the exhaust valve will open, and it should just push the water back out of the exhaust port. This work better with the exhaust manifold removed which I assume you already have it off.

It either turns over or it don't- which is it doing? If it turns, you dump ether in there one at a time without fuel or trying to start-just to dry things out. Dry gas, rubbing alcohol, whatever. PT farmer is on the right track. You might as well take the head off and do this right. Altho it is pain, you might as well take off the oilpan, clean it out, look in there, whatever you do, don't break an injector.

I found this interesting, a company in the UK specializes in pulling stuck injectors without pulling the head (a good read) http://injectorsremovals.co.uk/

Here's a video of one being pulled https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHw6vcnA0Oc

(quoted from post at 12:37:37 11/30/15) I found this interesting, a company in the UK specializes in pulling stuck injectors without pulling the head (a good read) http://injectorsremovals.co.uk/

Here's a video of one being pulled https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHw6vcnA0Oc

Click to expand...

I finally got all the injectors out. 3 came out with kroil and a small 2-jaw slide hammer after about 4 months. The last required unscrewing the injector cap and using a bolt and washer and the 10lb slide. Took me 2 years to work up to that. The injector cap doesn't seem to have suffered any for it, it popped out fairly easily once the direction of pull was in-line with the injector body. it was #4 and had quite a bit more corrosion around the bore, I'm assuming from leakage at the back of the hood/dash joint.

Either way, it's out.

Now I'm trying to cross reference the injector (atomizer) flow codes to a perkins # so I can find replacements. These are code AV.
Also on the injector is BKBL9 755269 P (either M or W)
DES NO 5210901

according to the service manual, that's a valid code for the AD4.203, but it doesn't give part numbers. (Page 2.13) http://www.navreference.com/Downloads/Perkins_Service_Data_to_540ci.pdf

It doesn't match either of the two injectors that YT has in the store for the 165, though. If I had some sort of idea how far off the flow numbers were, maybe the other injectors could be used.

I also found the injector dust seals a few years ago, ordered 4, lost them, and am now ordering another set from reliable aftermarket parts on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/400839736363?ViewItem=&item=400839736363

as far as the motor goes, it's locked stiff with the head off, so I'm going to drag it up to the shop and do a full rebuild. Which sucks, because apart from the light rust, the liners look pretty nice and it ran great before. Oh well.