Massey 165 pto hard to engage

I have a 1971 Massey 165. I was using it to bale the field a couple weeks ago. As the day wore on, I noticed the PTO becoming increasingly difficult to engage. It got to the point that I got it engaged and just left the pto run for the entirety of the day even while switching wagons, etc. The clutch is working properly. Push the pedal all the way to the board and the pto stops. With the pto disengaged, I push the clutch pedal all the way down and try to engage it. It feels like the gears (or whatever the lever is moving) just isn't quite lined up right since the lever doesn't move far and I can feel and hear it clunk into something. It's very similar to what we've all experienced with an unsynchronized manual tranny. It won't go into the gear you want, so you put it in another, move just a little bit, then it will go into the gear you want. I tried just slightly slipping the clutch while holding pressure on the pto lever and it just grinds. It just doesn't want to pop into gear. The shift lever is kinda sloppy on the shaft that goes into the rear end housing, but I don't see how that would effect anything. Does anyone know what exactly is inside this thing and how it's supposed to work? Any ideas? Thanks in advance
 
Hi,
If adjusted and working correctly the PTO shaft should stop turning with approximately
one inch of travel left on the clutch pedal. There are a number of causes that will make
engagement difficuly. For completely free engagement the PTO plate must have stopped
turning. Something is causing the plate to remain in motion. The first possibility is
that there is oil either from the input housing into the gearbox or from the rear crank
seal causing a stickiness on the plate and faces.
Next is the possibility that the PTO pressure plate is not being lifted clear of the
clutch plate to allow it to stop. This can be down to adjustment of the three bolts in
the clutch unit, adjustment of the pedal or wear in the clutch rod yoke and pedal if you
have the pedal type that pivots behind your foot.
Next could be a badly worn/loose release finger screw which would effectively lift two
thirds of the pressure plate but might leave the last section in enough contact to cause
the drag.
Assuming that you do not have a front end loader fitted, remove the inspection plate on
the underside of the clutch housing. Look at the inner face of the plate. Dry black
powder/paste is normal but if there is oil present that is an indication of what is
wrong. Using a good flashlight look indide and have an assistant press the clutch pedal
fully.Look for movement (other than initial brief travel) that has no effect on the
release mechanism. Using a screwdriver or similar turn the flywheel and observe the
operation at each adjusting screw and compare. Movement should be positive and smooth to
release the clutch plate. The clearance on the adjusting bolt heads should be
approximately 090". Look for excess clearance. Adjustment is simple with correct
spanners 1/2" open ends. If you do not have a feeler gauge two pieces of hand hacksaw
blade with the teeth ground off are a good alternative. Clearance may need to be less
depending on the wear in the linkage.
Let us know what you find.

DavidP, South Wales
 
Thanks for the reply. The clutch is working properly. It does completely disengage. I think I've got more of an issue with whatever linkage is inside the rear end that physically engages the pto. With the clutch pedal pressed completely down, whatever pto driven implement I have attached completely stops. Or, when trying to engage the pto, I get no grinding or anything. It just feels like whatever is inside there isn't lined up. I can slowly release the clutch while holding pressure on the pto lever and I can actually make it grind slowly enough that I can count the teeth on whatever is trying to engage. Eventually, it will pop into engagement, but I never had to do this before. It used to just slide right in.
 
Hi again,
If you think that the problem is more back-end then that is possible. There is a tip on
the end of the PTO lever that engages in a recess in the PTO gear. When moved forward
the gear partially slides over the shaft which protrudes from the rear of the pump. This
gives you engine PTO. When moved rearwards the gear engages with the gear which is
mounted on the wheel drive pinion. This way you get land-drive PTO. In extreme cases the
tip on the end of the lever can wear badly or even break off. The flange on the front of
the gear recess can also wear badly and break away. It would be advisable to drain the
oil in the transmission completely and remove the LH side cover. This way you can get a
full picture of any wear that is present. There is a small needle bearing in the rear
end of the pump shaft. With the PTO gear clear of the connection point try and lift the
rear of the pump. The pump pivots on 2 pins which are accessed via 2 nuts and oval
plates on the outside of the casing. These pins can break and allow the pump to drop
slightly. A broken dowel pin will normally cause the pump to knock against the inner
side of the casing and be very noisy. Again check if you can lift the pump at all or if
it looks a bit skew.

DavidP, South Wales
 
I have the roll pin worn at the bottom of the pto engaging handle. Just push the handle back and forth and look for the play
 
On my old TO35,

If it's hard to engage sometimes, I just turn the motor off, then it seemed to shift
right into gear.

It's a bit of a pain and not proper, but you do what you have to do to get going, never
any problem getting it out of gear.

Might be worth a try until you can properly fix the problem.
 

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