Converting perkins 3.152 rope seal -> lip seal?

jfharper

Member
Has anyone done this, bought a lip seal block or short and successfully bolted existing parts? I have an mf 205 industrial, and I think the oil pan is different, maybe where it seals on the rear crank bearing cap, but how about the other parts like the flywheel, trans adapter plate, front timing cover, water port at top of block?
 
Even the adaptor plate that bolts to the back of the block so the engine can bolt to the transmission has different part number for the lip seal engine.
 
Thanks. Yes, there are part numbers that have changed over the years or been upgraded, but the part with the new number fits the old part
with the old number. I've been doing research just by part numbers and that isn't going to tell an accurate picture, I need someone who has
working knowledge who has done this or something like it.
 
Hello JF,
In short everything is different between the rope seal fitment and the lip type seal.
The method of attaching the lip seal to the block is different so that makes the block different. The inside diameter of the lip seal is far greater than the rope seal so that makes the crankshaft different.
As far as I can recall the diameter of the cork seal on the rear face of the sump (oil pan) is significantly greater on the lip seal type.

DavidP, South Wales
 
Part numbers do give you a accurate idea! DavidP you remembered correctly that a lip seal oil pan is different from the rope seal pan. If you have a cracked rope seal block, get another rope seal block.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I called some peeps and they said the oil pan is different, one guy said the backing plate is different but the flywheel will bolt up to the lip seal crank, another guy (from tne same place) said the flywheel will not bolt up to the lip seal crank and he didn't know about the backing plate. The first guy said the timing cover will bolt up.

I've tried to compare some pictures comparing bolt patterns, and the backing plate and timing cover look like they may work, as well as the crank. The rear crank bearing cap looks larger where the cork gasket meets the pan, so it looks like the pan is different.

The challenge with part numbers is the numbers for my tractor have been discontinued my massey...this coming from an agco dealer, but there are replacement parts for other tractors that will fit...trouble is, massey didn't keep records of what numbers will fit my tractor, so I have to go by experience...someone who has working knowledge of this conversion.

For example, I just bought a hyd pump rebuild kit for a 135 and the number was not the number for my pump...one guy told me all the rebuild kits are the same...and I got the kit today, and it is identical to my pump...so this is the experience I need to go by, because the number was not for my tractor.

Also, rope seal block are hard to find and the are much more expensive, so may just invest in the lip seal, but I have pencil it out first.
 
Your 205 industrial is very similar except for the sheet metal as my 1965 MF 2135 industrial which is pretty much the same as the 135 farm tractor. My 2135 is a 4 cylinder gasser (I really wish it had the 3.152 instead). These guys helped my out a bunch when I was looking for parts for my 2135 industrial http://www.gbdorning.com/

On the 205 industrial keep a note of the tractor serial number, and the engine serial number (it should be stamped in the back of the block right above the transmission adaptor plate) as they did change some parts on the tractor, and engine at certain serial numbers.

The only way I would attempt a rope to lip seal conversion is to have a donor tractor that was pretty much complete from the transmission to the front support.

The block on your tractor it's the one with the crack in the cylinder that was hidden behind the sleeve?
 
(quoted from post at 22:10:24 07/17/15) Have you had the block magnifluxed, and or pressure checked?
ope, I can see the cracks
24558.jpg
24559.jpg
 
I'm finding interesting information. According to agco books online, the 205 ind only came with a rope seal block. But there is now an oil pan available (aftermarket part, sparex or something) that says it fits the 205 ind with lip seal block only. I also found the backing plate with the same info. The numbers for these two parts were from a 240 or something.

I also discovered some available rope blocks were made incorrectly at the origin and are not being released...something about the thrust washer area machined improperly where the thrust washers will fall out. So I'm leery about buying a rope block from someone else that doesn't know about this, only to find after its back together that the engine gets destroyed. I'm getting the impression the ropes are becoming obsolete.

If I can invest in a pan and backing plate and upgrade, that maybe a wiser way to go in the long run. I mean, why would aftermarket make an oil pan for a lip seal saying it fits a 205 when 205 only came with rope? Something tells me conversions like this have occurred successfully.
 
While at the farm today I looked at my uncles MF 235 with a ad3.152. The front support looks they all have the same bolt pattern. The bell housing bolt pattern looks like it should be the same. The big difference is the crankshaft itself, looking at pictures of the two (rope, and lip) the rope seal looks to be a lot smaller in diameter. The lip seal looks the like same diameter as the flange where the flywheel bolts on (which makes the block to transmission plate being different). To me it looks like it should be a complete bolt on having all the right parts. I have yet to find someone anywhere who has done the swap (at least on the internet). I did however find a MF135 with a MF165 4 cylinder diesel put in it (looks like it came that way) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m42MWAhZhxk

I'd like to see how your 3.152 lip seal engine swap works out, and if anything needs any modification.
 
That's good.

I have two more calls to make tomorrow for the last ditch effort to make the rope block work...it would be cheaper, but if they are not available there is nothing to do but go to lip and invest in that keeping my fingers crossed that there are no other surprises.
 
Block, lip crank, adapter plate, oil pan, rear oil seal, housing and bolts, and some of the oil line block fittings. Added a bushing to the right top side of the axle support. Everything else fit on the two diesels I did. Think that's everything...
 

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