Massey Ferguson 175 PTO

Hey all. I have a Massey Ferguson 175 that I have bought without any hydraulics or PTO functionality. I was told it was gone through and rebuilt and then stopped working a month after the previous owner got it back. I removed the right cover (dipstick side) and looked in there and some things do look new. I cannot remove the left side as there are pipes and levers connected. Hydraulic fluid did run out when i removed the cover plate. The pto shaft can be turned by hand when the engine is off and I put in gear (engine off) it still turns. The pto shaft does not work at all with engine running regardless of lever position or anything else. Neither do the hydraulics. I am open to any and all answers the only thing i ask is that we dont bombard this post with do this/do that messages. I will do one thing at a time and post pictures before moving on/ruling out problems and hopefully, together, we can figure this one out!
 
Need to know how tractor is equipped, is the PTO the late fully independent hydraulic clutch or the two stage foot clutch type? There is a chance with either type clutch the drive is lost at the PTO input shaft in front of the transmission..
 
Dieseltech is correct. It makes a difference whether the tractor has a 2 stage clutch or IPTO. Either way the problem is likely to be in the bell housing rather than the transmission/rear end, splines stripped out of the hub on the back of the clutch cover for IPTO or a problem with the secondary clutch disc for the 2 stage. Suggest you take the cover plate off the underside of the bell housing and look up in there.
 
Thanks for getting back. As previously stated I will post pictures of what I see. I have attached a picture of the plate you guys mentioned. More accurately, what's inside the bellhousing behind the plate. I can see a clutch pressure plate and release bearing inside. There are three fingers or forks with 1/2" nuts and bolts on them inside there as well. If I have to split it I will. I will do whatever we decide needs to be done to fix it. Again, the symptoms are no pto shaft spinning and no hydraulic power.
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The pto and hydraulic pump are both driven by the same shaft, the outer transmission input shaft. Can you tell what that shaft is connected to in the clutch area? It should be either a hub that is riveted to the clutch cover or a clutch disc. Can you determine if the outer input shaft turns when the engine turns?
 
Have we determined that this tractor has IPTO ? Does your PTO lever look like this one (Red Knob)? If so, I had a problem with my 150 with IPTO after rebuild.

Hydraulics and IPTO stopped working a few days after rebuild. Some DumbA** left a cotton towel in the belly of the beast when cleaning the pump area and clogged the filters. Lift cover had to come off again to clean out all the bits and pieces. :-(
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well the knob is gone but yes it has a pto lever like that but my auxiliary hydraulics are a tab bit different. I honestly do not know if IPTO or not so if anyone could tell me that would be great. I have a picture of the hydraulics. I have the foot boards removed and have two hydro lines disconnected and the pto lever is removed also. Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. I am looking for the next step in the diagnostic procedure to find the smoking gun.
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to do that i am guessing i will need to block the wheels securely, start the engine and look under with safety glasses and a flashlight to see what is turning and what is not. Let me check that now. We have had a torrential amount of rain the last two weeks and everything is mud, mud, mud outside
 
(quoted from post at 11:21:21 07/05/15) Independent PTO tractors do not have ground drive position while two stage foot clutch tractors do have..

okay that makes sense to me but the hydraulics are out and I just got it so I wouldn't know for sure. it seems like it has a selection for ground drive neutral and engine drive but I cannot swear by it. is there another way for me to verify bc I am really really ignorant about this model sorry guys lol but please keep the help coming and we will figure this one out for sure!
 
If it is live pto, the pto lever would engage a fork that moves a sliding coupler behind the hydraulic pump to put the pto in gear. If it is IPTO the lever would operate a valve that engages a hydraulic clutch pack behind the hydraulic pump. What do you see inside the tractor where the left side cover was?
 
On IPTO models the left side cover can't be removed until lines on inside are removed first, which requires the lift cover to come off for the lines access. PTO/MP pressure test and two auxiliary lines..
 
If the side cover where the pto lever is has hydraulic fittings on it like this one
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its independent pto (can be engaged, and disengaged without depressing the clutch). All modern tractors are probably all ipto, its nice not having to depress the clutch to use the pto.
 
Willy, Here's a picture of the inner workings. Your 175 may have the larger pump for IPTO and external hydraulics. The standard pump produced 4 gpm and the larger pump produced around 14 gpm (I think).
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Okay. That's exactly what my bird brain needs. Pictures and diagrams with colors and letters and numbers lol. I got the top cover off (pic) I cant see anything that is wrong or out of place except when i loosened the left cover i did not get the alignment bolt back in the housing and it rubbed some on the shaft when i moved it into the work area. What is the next step? Just to recap I have IPTO and it has a BRAND new pump in it which is awesome but doesnt work. and yes i removed the little roller before pulling the top cover. It was so easy to pull and replace with the cherry picker i put it right back on to keep the dirt out. Once again thanks EVERYONE for all the help and advice. Let's get this one done!

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That very small line in you picture goes to the left side cover and has a tap for a gauge connection. Oil pressure should be around 125-150 psi with the lever in the forward position. The pump is driven full time by a shaft from the spline in the clutch pressure plate. "New Pump" you say, I ran mine with the lift cover off (at idle) to observe the operation of the IPTO clutch and brake. The brake will NOT stop the PTO with a load IE; Brush Cutter. It is just to hold the shaft from turning in the off position.

As to the main pump hydraulics, I notice you have a valve mounted on the lift cover (forward, right side). Could it possibly be shifted into the diverted position to supply oil to aux equipment? If so, the lift arms will not work in that position. In the picture I posted, mine has a simple diverter valve supplying oil to the four way valve. Yours looks to be all in one valve.

There are many folks here that have more knowledge than I. I do hope they chime in.
 
I know exactly what port you are talking about. I see it on the left cover and it is a 9/16" plug with a rubber o-ring. I cracked this loose and started the tractor. Although I could not do the "test the pressure here" aspect of it I know that it should pump fluid out of that and it is not. This leads me to believe there is a disconnect at the driven shaft. In essence the shaft that drives the pump is not turning or spinning for whatever reason. Please advise.
 
The auxiliary pump gets its drive from a gear on front of the scotch yoke pump, if neither one runs then the drive is lost either in the transmission or at the input spline area, possibly stripped splines at the clutch cover, or sheared rivets on the cover/PTO drive hub..
 
(quoted from post at 10:06:13 07/07/15) The auxiliary pump gets its drive from a gear on front of the scotch yoke pump, if neither one runs then the drive is lost either in the transmission or at the input spline area, possibly stripped splines at the clutch cover, or sheared rivets on the cover/PTO drive hub..

so I need to split the engine away from the Trans to verify?
 
There is plate on the bottom of the bellhousing that's bolted on, you should be able remove it, and look around. With a light, and one of those small inspection mirrors you maybe able to see something. Sometimes broken clutch parts maybe laying on top of that bottom cover.
 
With the top cover off watch the scotch yoke three point pump with the engine running at idle, the two piston blocks should move back and forth IF the pump is being driven. No movement means drive to the pumps is lost somewhere. I'd look at the split torque pressure plate drive for stripped splines or sheared drive hub rivets. Should be able to see something through the bottom clutch inspection plate. Also hope the last mechanic did not forget the splined hydraulic drive coupler gear, it's not likely though as it's part of the auxiliary pump drive..
 
(quoted from post at 15:56:22 07/07/15) With the top cover off watch the scotch yoke three point pump with the engine running at idle, the two piston blocks should move back and forth IF the pump is being driven. No movement means drive to the pumps is lost somewhere. I'd look at the split torque pressure plate drive for stripped splines or sheared drive hub rivets. Should be able to see something through the bottom clutch inspection plate. Also hope the last mechanic did not forget the splined hydraulic drive coupler gear, it's not likely though as it's part of the auxiliary pump drive..

okay slow down there. we start talking scotch egg yokes aND piston blocks I get a little lost lol remember I am the color and number and diagram guy. so I need to start the tractor and attempt to use the lever and watch for something to move?
 
No levers need to be moved, but with the engine at idle you should see the oil churning in the three point pump as the piston blocks move back and forth IF the pump is turning. It may help to drain a gallon or two to see the blocks easier. Still sounds like NOTHING is turning..
 
(quoted from post at 19:27:59 07/07/15) No levers need to be moved, but with the engine at idle you should see the oil churning in the three point pump as the piston blocks move back and forth IF the pump is turning. It may help to drain a gallon or two to see the blocks easier. Still sounds like NOTHING is turning..

drained four gallons and started and let idle. nothing moved or churned or even gurgled. this has got to mean something. I just don't know what. hopefully not expensive.
 
To me it means there's a drive loss, I'd check the clutch pressure plate cover first, could be the PTO input drive hub that's riveted to the cover has sheared rivets or stripped splines. If all is OK then I'd remove the transmission from the differential case and check the drive there. You should be able to see the input shaft turning through the bottom inspection plate if all is well there.
 
Agree with DT that the pressure plate probably is stripped. The outer input shaft to the transmission drives off the pressure plate, the PTO, main hydraulic pump and the aux hydraulic pump(which drives the IPTO and remote hydraulics). You probably need to split the tractor at the bell house to fix it. HTH's Lee
 
(quoted from post at 19:56:49 07/07/15) Agree with DT that the pressure plate probably is stripped. The outer input shaft to the transmission drives off the pressure plate, the PTO, main hydraulic pump and the aux hydraulic pump(which drives the IPTO and remote hydraulics). You probably need to split the tractor at the bell house to fix it. HTH's Lee


okay. I'll split it at the back of the engine and post results. going to be awhile due to weather tho stay posted
 
guys I went to put the oil back in the tractor and I took the filler plug off. inside u can see all the linkage and gears right thru the filler hole. I started it and looked inside and a shaft way down low is spinning and oil is slinging everywhere. this has to mean something. the disconnect must be between there and the pump right?
 
(quoted from post at 14:00:30 07/09/15) guys I went to put the oil back in the tractor and I took the filler plug off. inside u can see all the linkage and gears right thru the filler hole. I started it and looked inside and a shaft way down low is spinning and oil is slinging everywhere. this has to mean something. the disconnect must be between there and the pump right?


There is a female coupler to connects the pump shaft to the shaft in the tractor that drives the pump. The coupler is supposed to have a cotter pin that goes through it that should hold it in place.
 
What you are seeing is TRANSMISSION gears turning, not PTO drive. The PTO drive is the solid shaft INSIDE the lower hollow transmission shaft. I'd do a clutch split and see what you have. If the hub is OK in the pressure plate turn the large shaft and see if it will drive the pumps, if not the trans may have damage for the PTO side. Hopefully it's at the clutch assembly, if it worked OK for awhile, then stopped.
 
I split the tractor and the drive clutch was bad. also several other things. I will try to post pics soon. split the trans off the rear end and pulled top cover. post back tomorrow
 
parts list so far for repair; pto input shaft, pto gear, countershaft, rear main seal, lift cover gasket, clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bearing. Should get me back in business. Kind of surprised how many views this thread has. Stay tuned. More pics and progress to come.
 
(quoted from post at 20:01:04 05/30/16) parts list so far for repair; pto input shaft, pto gear, countershaft, rear main seal, lift cover gasket, clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bearing. Should get me back in business. Kind of surprised how many views this thread has. Stay tuned. More pics and progress to come.

Any news?
 
The PTO gear i ordered had the correct tooth count but the incorrect spline count. I have that reordered and on the way. Since I have the transmission apart I am ordering new multipower clutch packs. When all the parts come in I will reassemble the trans and post pics as i go. The final step in assembly will be to install a new rear main, clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing before rejoining the tractor split. Stay tuned for pics and progress!!
 
New PTO gear is here and it's the correct one. I wish I could go direct to Sparex, Inc.
I need to order a couple seals and some other parts before assembling the pto shaft. Stay tuned.....more parts, lol.
 

Good pictures, nice to see it come back together :)
With the broken parts list you posted it seems the earlier "rebuilt" done to it wasn't much proper at all.
 
Transmission is rebuilt. I picked it up this morning. The replacement parts list was extensive and the cost was high but it got done faster and more accurately/correctly than i could have done it.
Sometimes you just have to swallow your pride and turn to the pros. Which in this case I did. Pretty remarkable actually. I took the transmission to them in pieces and they completely rebuilt it without hesitation. Most shops I called didnt want to touch it since i took it out, took it apart and it had been sitting in my barn for a year.
Kudos to the Massey Ferguson Dealer in Simpsonville.

 
That's all I'm posting for today. I will get pictures of the multi power pump and ancillaries that were checked and reworked as well.
I had all new clutch plates installed as well. Sorry it took so long to post updates. I have never been accused of getting in a hurry on anything.
 

Got the transmission unloaded today. Could not have done it without my wife's help. Of course that's 99.9% everything in my life. Also, I've been fighting bronchitis or pneumonia or something. It's really kicking my butt. Going to the doctor tomorrow to get checked out.

Our dog Zero helped out too!
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Okay. So just to recap this is where things stand for now. I need to get a replacement filter for the main hydraulic pump. You may have noticed it missing. The rubber was deteriorated very badly. It looks to be very very old. In addition, I need to pick up a new lift cover gasket. Once I have these two items I will be able to put the lift cover on and turn my attention to the steering console. It needs rewired tremendously bad.
Before that I want to put the new filter in and some hytrans and make sure all the pumps and pto items are working properly.
 

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