massey 3 cylinder engines and PTO smoothness

rankrank1 · Feb 17, 2015

2 cylinder John Deere engines are kinda known for being notoriously harsh when it comes to PTO loads. On the other hand 6 cylinder engines from Oliver were known as being overly smooth on PTO loads.

Just curious: How smooth is the venerable little 3 cylinder Perkins 3-152 engine on PTO loads? (e.g. Massey 135 or Massey 150). Is the Perkins diesel 3 cylinder way smoother than the Perkins gas 3 cylinder? Is there a huge difference beteen one of these and a 4 cylinder of similar hp?

ptfarmer · Feb 17, 2015

The AD3.152 Perkins diesels I've been around are pretty smooth when it comes to pto loads in comparison of the 2 cyl JD's. Don't know how the G3.152 Perkins gas engines are even though they are basically the AD3.152 diesel with a few different parts so it can run on gas. My MF2135 industrial with the Z134 Continental 4 cyl gasser is not the best, but it's still better than the 2 cyl JD's

DavidP, South Wales · Feb 18, 2015

Hi,
The Perkins 3 cylinder is about as smooth as you can get for a 3 cylinder. Four cylinder engines whilst being relatively smooth do suffer from 'two-up, two down' at TDC. Piston speed diminishes rapidly to zero at TDC and BDC and creates vibrations. To overcome this many Perkins 4 cylinder have a Lanchester balancer type unit driven from the crankshaft which creates vibrations to counteract those caused by the piston travel. Six cylinder engines do not require this as the pistons are more evenly spaced.

DavidP, South Wales

Phil Tibbetts · Feb 18, 2015

Excellent explanation David.

DavidP, South Wales · Feb 18, 2015

Thankyou kind sir.
D

ptfarmer · Feb 18, 2015

(quoted from post at 08:24:48 02/18/15) Excellent explanation David.

X2 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

495man · Feb 18, 2015

Run PTO gear with MF 240 with 152, it's smooth. Never thought otherwise.

Bill VA · Feb 19, 2015

Zero issues with my MF50 w/A3.152 diesel. In fact, when
shopping for a new tractor, I was very concerned about those
with an independent PTO - being giving a hard start to an old
implement like my New Holland 68 baler. The MF50's PTO, I
can feather it on - very nice. BTW the JD I bought, it's
independent PTO is mechanical engagement and can also
feather it on too.

Bill

WellWorn · Feb 19, 2015

If you look at the dist cap on a JD, you'll see the cyl's firing 90* apart, meaning it has 270* of 'coast' between the next set of power strokes. Huge flywheel to 'even it out'. The AD3-152 fires 120* apart. A 4cyl fires 90* apart, a 6 at 60* apart, and an 8 at 45*. The more cylinders (up to 12) makes for a lot smoother power to a driven load.

I have it from a good source that GE on their big 16cyl loco engines was having vibration (harmonic) problems. Their 12 cylinder engines purred - I've heard them run at the factory.

rankrank1 · Feb 21, 2015

Good explanations so far. I am fully aware of how the 2 cyl have long lapses between power strokes and the big flywheel to compensate. They are actually tolerable okay smooth under light load but not so much when you really pull them under hard load. Both forward progress and PTO gets pretty herky jerky.

Inline 6 cyl are naturally smooth due to the inherent balance of the engine and never require balance shafts. I have run many of them, but never any on PTO loads. The 6 cyl were always are big horse that were needed to do the field tillage work back when we owned them.

I guess the best way to phrase my original question is how smooth is the little 3 cylinder perkins under a hard PTO loads compared to a 4 cylinder of similar hp (and the 4 cylinder is NOT equipped with balancer shafts). Many 4 cylinder engines do not seem to need the balance shafts if the rpm kept under a certain threshold like say 1800 to 2000 rpm.

495man · Feb 21, 2015

Hardest PTO load I have on the 152 perkins is a 78" snow blower. enter a drift at 2200 engine RPM and lug down to 1600 RPM,doesn't vibrate.

If that isn't heavy load on that engine, nothing is.

ptfarmer · Feb 21, 2015

Running a square bailer off the pto with the diesel 3.152 you can hear it load the engine when the chamber of the bailer is on the compression stroke, but the tractor doesn't surge while its moving.

massey 3 cylinder engines and PTO smoothness

rankrank1

Well-known Member

ptfarmer

Well-known Member

DavidP, South Wales

Well-known Member

Phil Tibbetts

Well-known Member

DavidP, South Wales

Well-known Member

ptfarmer

Well-known Member

495man

Well-known Member

Bill VA

Well-known Member

WellWorn

Member

rankrank1

Well-known Member

495man

Well-known Member

ptfarmer

Well-known Member

Similar threads