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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Re: Thermostat removal, MF165

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jwillett2009

02-19-2013 18:15:26
142.167.167.142



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Dave P., DieselTech,

I know I wrote in my post "change the thermostat" but I actually just removed it. No intent to deceive, I guess I was just in the frame of mind for writing a procedure to "change" the thermostat. I did order one right away, supposed to be in tomorrow am. Removal did stop the overheating.

Last night I run it for 45 minutes or so. I cleaned snow. It smoked but I was able to get it done. Because it was leaking oil, I drove into the garage just to have a quick peek to make sure I wasn't low on oil. I checked the oil, took maybe 1 minute.... Went to start it up and it just "rolled and rolled", it never really "kicked". It was lots warm, of course, because I was blowing snow. It was late, I didn't feel like fighting with it so I called it a night.

Now, I made a big mistake to get to this point.... I didn't know the history of the tractor maintenance when I bought it. It worked well so I decided to run it through the winter and do a big maintenance in the spring. Well, at this point, I want to eliminate every issue I can so tonight I changed the fuel filters and gave it a brand new air filter. I bled the fuel lines (I've done this successfully before) and tried it. We were in the warm garage and I had it plugged in (block heater) for a while. It just rolled and rolled, never kicked. I had a friend with me, we went back and went through the bleed out procedure again using the users manual. We turned it over and gave it a shot of starting fluid through the windbox. It "backfired" through the windbox with each shot.... I have never heard the tractor make this noise before...

It never seemed to want to start..... It's so weird. I drove it into where it sits and shut it off. It was smoking but running ok.... Now it won't go.

Also, on the overheating, I didn't think it was that severe. I drove 50 feet in first gear, no load, just the tractor itself. As soon as I realized something wasn't right, I shut it down, let it cool before running the 50 feet back to the garage.

I've checked for fuel in the water, fuel or water in oil, etc.... No detectable cross contamination.

I'm at the end of my limited knowledge. What else can be going on. Timing is gears, it would be awful hard to get out of time wouldn't it??? If a bad valve, wouldn't it kick over on the others???

Not sure what to do. What's my next move????

I sincerely appreciate the advise gentlemen.
Jamie

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DavidP, South Wales

02-20-2013 02:02:24
78.148.189.202



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 Re: Thermostat removal, MF165 in reply to jwillett2009, 02-19-2013 18:15:26  
Hi again Jamie,
The problems that you are having are typical where a metering valve is at least partially stuck. When you were trying to start it after changing the filters, was there any evidence of smoke coming from the exhaust? If 'no', it suggests a lack of fuel being delivered to the injectors. If 'yes' at least its trying to start but could be prevented by cranking speed too low or loss of compression.

Again, when trying to start have you slackened at least two of the injector pipe nuts at the injectors? Two or even all four should be slackened a little. Turn the engine over until fuel escapes from the nut. When fuel is present tighten the nuts and attempt to start again.

It is quite common partivularly with older tractors that once the fuel system has been disturbed to change filters for example that they present a great deal of difficulty starting the first time afterwards. Over the years I have found that the best remedy for this is to tow the tractor to start it. This of course will only work if your tractor is a non-Multi-Power.
Being towed with your tractor in top gear will generate a higher cranking speed and is normally successful. Will your weather conditions allow this? Do you have access to another tractor?
Remember that a rope and NEVER a chain should be used.

One further check is to ensure that where the stop lever is connected to the spindle going into the pump is secure. They can work loose on the flats and in effect the pump is not fully in the 'run' position whilst you are trying to start the engine.

Let us know how you get on.

DavidP

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jwillett2009

02-20-2013 04:12:12
142.167.167.142



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 Re: Thermostat removal, MF165 in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 02-20-2013 02:02:24  
Hi David,

We were indeed seeing smoke from the stack when rolling it over. When we bled out the air, one of us pumped the fuel manually while the other cycles through the primary filter, secondary filter, fuel pump (two ports). We then turned the tractor on the starter motor and bled the four injectors. We went through this again as a double check after it wouldn't start.

My tractor, as luck would have it, is multipower. The multipower function has never worked. I still have hope that it may come around with the new hydraulic oil if I can get it running for a bit. I've never had compression braking on hills, it free wheels and I use the brakes as required. For plowing, usually there is enough ballast from the snow to keep everything under control..... I digress.

I made cursory checks of the linkage and function of both the stop lever (fuel cutoff) and the throttle. Both seemed to be ok..... Ill have a real good look tonight.

I did comment that it didn't sound like it was turning fast enough. I had the charger on the battery to assist. Not sure. Maybe I'll need a battery.

Ill try to start it again tonight. I'll post my results.

Not sure if this makes any sense but normally when the tractors starting I get lots of black smoke and it stinks up the garage pretty good. Last night when rolling over we got cleaner, white smoke out the stack. Maybe this is a result of clean air and fuel??? The old filters were filthy.

Thanks again gentlemen. Have a good day.

Jamie

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Dieseltech

02-20-2013 21:16:37
199.16.223.2



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 Re: Thermostat removal, MF165 in reply to jwillett2009, 02-20-2013 04:12:12  
White smoke at exhaust means engine is getting fuel but not high enough compression heat to burn properly, due to low compression and/or low cranking speed. 203 is a good starting engine IF compression is in good condition. If you have excessive blowby from vent tube I suspect piston/rings/sleeve damage. Had a 354T recently, too much either had broken all ring lands and rings. It would barely start, but when hydraulic pump kicked in it would die. Blowby fumes looked like it could have been the exhaust pipe, so much air was coming out.

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DavidP, South Wales

02-20-2013 09:15:38
78.148.189.202



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 Re: Thermostat removal, MF165 in reply to jwillett2009, 02-20-2013 04:12:12  
Jamie,
That's bad luck about the Multi-Power. It's worth checking the MP linkage. Follow it from the hand lever to the point where it enters the transmission casing and operate it. It's quite possible that it may have seized or become bent.

Double check and clean all battery connections. Fully charge the battery and use a second battery if you can with heavy jumper leads. Attach the jumper earth clamp to the chassis (starter mounting bolts)to ensure the best possible connection. If you have a block heater you probably will not have a 'thermostart' in the inlet manifold. Might be worth checking. DO avoid using starting fluid (laughing gas) you may do more damage.

David P

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Dieseltech

02-19-2013 20:46:29
199.16.223.2



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 Re: Thermostat removal, MF165 in reply to jwillett2009, 02-19-2013 18:15:26  
When tractor was shut down to check the oil injection pump metering valve may have stuck in the off position. If you can get it started again you may help free it up this way. Disconnect stop cable from lever at pump so you can work lever by hand. Start engine and set hand throttle for 1800-2000 rpm. Now slowly move stop lever toward off to about 1500, then back on quickly. Do not turn off completely as it may stick again. Repeat several times until speed picks up quickly when lever is turned on again after being shut off. I have gotten some freed up this way in the past. Have also had to completely clean and reseal some too. Just mailed out a 135 pump that had the same trouble. Good Luck, Rich.

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