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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit

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Ryan in MB

11-22-2011 08:28:14
74.198.151.102



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I think I've got a major problem with hydraulics on a Massey Harris 50. Tractor has 3 point hitch and loader. (I've now removed the loader so I can get tractor in barn to work on it)
When it happened:
I'd already moved a few things around the yard using 3 point hitch and from one minute to the next the hydraulics stopped. Usually I can hear something goin on inside the compartment under the seat under where the hydraulic levers are attached but now there is no sound when levers are engaged.
There is no movement at all from the loader or the hitch when I engage the levers (other than loader lowering from its own weight).
Could this be total pump failure or could it be a case of something not engaging?
Temperature at the time around -10C

If anyone out there has any advice on how to get started troubleshooting my problem your wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Please advise if there are parts in/attached to pump that can wear out.

I've found a bunch of parts available through website fixthatfergusson.com, including a new pump if need be, but I don't know enough about these things to know where to begin.

Thanks very much.

Ryan

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Inno

11-23-2011 10:55:06
70.54.184.7



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Ryan in MB, 11-22-2011 08:28:14  
My 202 had similar looking oil in it, froze and broke the pump real bad!
You can see some of the oil there, this is in above freezing temp.
Not sure when the pump broke, possibly even before I got the tractor as I have never used the 3pt with a backhoe attached all the time. I do know that it made a heck of a racket in there!


Da pump she ees a broken!!


This post was edited by Inno at 10:56:18 11/23/11.

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Ryan in MB

11-23-2011 15:42:04
74.198.151.102



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Inno, 11-23-2011 10:55:06  
Wow that looks bad.
The noise co ing from the compartment was quite faint and only occurred at the end of the piston stroke on the loader lines.
I'm really hoping the pump is salvageable.

Thanks for the pictures.

Ryan



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Tony in Mass.

11-23-2011 06:13:00
76.118.216.103



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Ryan in MB, 11-22-2011 08:28:14  

The filter is down and forward when you reach in the left porthole, it can be seen and reached easily, has a wing nut on top.... but seems I remember the early models didin't have filters at all?
Yours must look like mine. Your fluid is disgusting. I was eating breakfast when first saw it, the oil looks like what I almost did. I never saw oil with ...chunks floating it it before! Ice? You are in Manitoba? Tractor not in a heated garage? with this fluid... I bet there is so much water in it, the stuff freezes and binds everything up as it tries to flow. Get ALL of this stuff out, and reach in there where ever you can and scoop it out- although you might be waking up sleeping dogs, but I would get as much out as possible. The proper oil for this isn't cheap- Canada? so 30-33 litres? Equal to 8 US gallons, so 2 buckets- over 150 loonies. But you have no choice. This fluid is bad, gross, got to go.

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Ryan in MB

11-23-2011 07:36:15
74.198.151.102



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Tony in Mass., 11-23-2011 06:13:00  
Yeah it was ice. Fluid was more like slush. I had to put heater under tractor to get it to melt. (No heated garage or barn)
There was also some fine sediment in the bottom of the chamber; I'm going to flush the chamber after I get as much of the oil out as possible.

Your right, that oil isn't cheap...



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Dan S (NY)

11-23-2011 07:30:09
216.27.112.8



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Tony in Mass., 11-23-2011 06:13:00  

I had oil almost like Ryan's once... Best way is to take things apart and get it ALL out (except the transmission!). I only went as far as I did in the picture because of a bad bearing but it does let you get things nice and clean.

Dan



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2tractors

11-22-2011 17:23:08
207.144.5.133



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Ryan in MB, 11-22-2011 08:28:14  
I've got a mf50 with the MH z134 continental motor which makes mine a MF50 since the hood is not scalloped on the edges but I've NEVER heard noises from the hydraulics.



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Ryan in MB

11-22-2011 14:18:24
74.198.151.102



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Ryan in MB, 11-22-2011 08:28:14  

I opened up both sides and had a look. I found the fluid to be the consistency of slush just about.

After draining some fluid I checked the control valve. Sprung back fine after being pushed toward the back. Moving the 3 point lever seems to move the control lever about 3/4 inch. I can manually move the control valve lever more (toward the back of tractor). - With the tractor running nothing happens when I do this. - With tractor off I would hear some liquid displacement somewhere inside the pump.

At no time was there a sign the hitch wanted to move at all when the tractor was running.

I did see a small current of oil flowing on the right side just inside the housing when the tractor was running, but could not see where it was coming from due to cloudiness of liquid.

I took some pictures of the inside. There doesn't seem to be a filter on the pump. At least not that I can recognize. The red arrow on the picture shows where I could see the current of oil moving when tractor was running.

Thanks again for any continuing input.

R

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Dan S (NY)

11-23-2011 07:05:11
216.27.112.8



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Ryan in MB, 11-22-2011 14:18:24  
Just some more thoughts this morning... Once you get things clean inside, you could refill the rear end to just below the relief valve and give it a try again. You should then be able to see for sure if it is the relief valve that is bypassing or something else. If you do get a new valve, I think the older pumps required a lower PSI valve then the newer pumps so be careful which one you get or you might break something if you hit the upper limit on the lift arms. I had the lift cylinder crack on a 50 from end to end when I didn't have the upper limit stop adjusted right and the arms went to far up. I don't know if my relief valve was incorrect or just gummed up but it didn't protect the cylinder! Needless to say, when I replaced the cylinder I got a new valve as well.

Dan

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Dan S (NY)

11-22-2011 19:53:50
75.131.76.244



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Ryan in MB, 11-22-2011 14:18:24  
From where you show the turbulence in the oil it could be your pressure relief valve is stuck open. It is the just above the control lever rod that goes into the pump. You have the older pump and they didn't come with a filter. You could try a new relief valve and a refill with clean oil and see if that gets things working. I would definitely try to flush as much gunk out of the rear end as you can before refilling.

Dan

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Trac

11-22-2011 10:01:38
71.53.28.158



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Ryan in MB, 11-22-2011 08:28:14  
Do you have auxiliary hydraulics levers in front of seat? If you do put the hydraulic lift in the up position then try moving auxiliary levers. Chances are the control valve is stuck. Remove inspection cover it's round with dip stick move the position control lever back and forth the control valve should be sliding nicely without sticking you'll have to drain some oil to see.



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Dan S (NY)

11-22-2011 09:35:48
216.27.112.8



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Ryan in MB, 11-22-2011 08:28:14  
Does your PTO still spin? If it does, the pump is also turning.

You may have a stuck control valve in the pump if you had contaminated oil or you may have a leak or your pump filter may have completely clogged. Either way I would take off the side covers and have a look. The filter is accessed through the left hand side cover with the PTO handle in it. The control valve and linkages are easiest to view through the right side cover that has the dipstick. Don't stick your hands inside the tractor with the engine running! The control valve lever will be coming up out of the oil with a roller on top and the control fingers should be coming down from the top cover and in front of the roller. You can push on the control lever towards the back of the tractor and it should move and spring back. Move the 3 point lever on the quadrant and see if the control lever moves. If it does, I would start the tractor and try to raise the 3 point with a load on it while using a flashlight and mirror to look inside for oil spraying around or leaking down from above. Don't get near any moving bits! What to do next depends on what you find. If your oil is contaminated and milky with water you should change it before something freezes.

Dan

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Ryan in MB

11-22-2011 11:08:29
74.198.151.102



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Dan S (NY), 11-22-2011 09:35:48  
Thanks Dan and Trac

I'll do as you suggest and remove both left and right side access plates and see what I can find out.
Yes there are aux. control levers in front of the seat.
Yes the PTO shaft still spins when engaged.

I thought I should replace the oil in there anyway because I don't know the last time it was changed.
I'm going to pull the drain plugs and maybe do a flush of the compartment at the same time; try and clean the filter also. I'll do this after check control valve.

Thanks again I'll repost after.

Ryan

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Trac

11-22-2011 10:10:40
71.53.28.158



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Dan S (NY), 11-22-2011 09:35:48  
Hey Dan you beat me to the post i do type slow one finger and all. lol



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Ryan in MB

11-22-2011 08:32:16
74.198.151.102



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Ryan in MB, 11-22-2011 08:28:14  
More info for above post:

Hydraulic fluid level seems good but fluid is cloudy (milky).



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jack in nb

11-23-2011 16:23:30
142.167.20.255



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to Ryan in MB, 11-22-2011 08:32:16  
Hello Ryan -

Hope you've found the problem.

With that water in there, you might want to plug the holes as you button up.

There are 5 holes water can get in on the basic tractor: 2 around the gear shift boots if they're cracked or not seated properly, a missing gasket on the transmission filler plug, a cap missing from the transmission case air vent fitting under the seat, and the really nasty one to fix - a cracked boot behind the top link attach bracket.

The clevis yoke has to come off to do it, and the assembly is usually rusted solid. I've had to replace the clevis yoke and plunger rod on 3 units. Fortunately they're not too expensive.

Greasing the threads well on reassembly will make the job easier next time - in 2030?

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Ryan in MB

11-30-2011 08:19:11
184.94.119.74



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 Re: Massey harris 50 Hydraulics quit in reply to jack in nb, 11-23-2011 16:23:30  
Thanks everyone for contributing to this post.

The problem is resolved at this point.


I flushed the system with diesel, drained overnight, and cleared out as much of the sediment at the bottom of the case as possible.

When I filled the case with trans-hydro fluid the hydraulics for the hitch worked again. Must have been something clogging the pump or the slushy, half frozen fluid that was in the machine that was causing the problem.

I'm going to keep a close eye on it over the winter and if need be change fluid again in spring depending on how it looks. I am going to add on to the small shed I have and try and get the machine covered, at least partially, from the elements.
Hopefully this will stem the inevitable creep of moisture into the system.

For now I'm grateful things are working again without major expense.

Thanks again!

Ryan

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