Advice

Ok I'm farming in a small way way. Because of dealer support I'm thinking that my next tractor will be MF. Don't know anyting about em. I'm looking in the 40-60 hp range, live hydraulics and PTO a must. I'm looking for older stuff not newer in the 2K-5K range. Nothing I have to have today but by next spring would be nice. I can be utility or row crop. Cab would be nice too.

So what models should I be looking at at?

Thanks

Rick

In your price range:
if you are looking at a MF
maybe a 165-175 model diesel, but if you do buy one of these _______(be sure)_____ it does not have multipower.

get a 4 speed with high/low trans only!!!!!!!!!!!!

this M/P option was nice when new, but these tractor are 40 years old and any hydraulic drive system will be worn out or almost worn out by now.

(just a word to the wise)

other brands of tractors also had hyd drive systems and they did not hold up well

example:
case: case-o-matic
international T/A
ferguson: multipower
ford: select o matic or some such
John Deere: shifter on dashboard, kid could not drive it as it was too hard to shift!!!

some will argue that these trans were great, guess they got a good one that worked, but when 50%+ of the people that bought one had problems, it is something to stay away from. All old, mostly worn out equipment needs to be simple to work on or its going to dollar you to death.
AC dealer told me once that an old AC D-17 would starve a repair shop to death as they gave very little problem. who knows but without 3 pt hitch they were hard to work with unless you had all ac equipment.
example: GM pickups and bad fuel pumps

good luck and take your time, ask a few old farmers that used tractors that are in your price range, before you buy.

Cab in the $2000 to $5000 range is a deal breaker unless you want a trashed cab. You MIGHT stumble on to a 265/275/285 with a decent cab but closer to $6000/$7500 range.

Avoid 400 series MF's. Most I know of had quality control issues.

Ford SelectOspeed was hydraulicly ACTUATED but was NOT hydraulic drive..But no they weren't very reliable unless constant service and upkeep....

Deere PowerShift (w/shifter on dash) Was NOT hydraulic drive either, (Mechanical drive, hydraulic actuated) and is one of the most reliable transmissions ever built. I know of dozens of first generation PowerShift Deere's still in use w/o ever having anything more than routine service, and accumulating 10's of thousands of hours of hard use.

MF,

did not mean to pass along wrong info,
maybe did not have all my facts right, but all i know is on the john deere, some around was using them to oil tobacco and the kids wind up driving sometimes and they just had problems shifting the dash board shift, but they could have been out of adjustment.

had a neighbor that had a 2020 john deere that gave him problems, but as you said most john deere's were great tractors.

only problem is: they are going to be, (in good condition) out of his price range.

I was only suggesting tractors that were simple to operate and in his price range.

his price range does not give you much to work with in today's used tractor market.

Syncro Range tranny shifters on 10 series and 20 series JD's were a bit tricky until you mastered them. PowerShift was nothing BUT easy to shift for anyone who could reach the shifter. I don't recall a 2020 with PowerShift, so more'n likely it was a Syncro Range....

I think the OP was asking specifically about Massey Fergusons....Not many bargains to be had in green....ESPECIALLY with a cab...

The problem here is that MF for many years had poor dealer support in my area. Cloest dealer in the early 70's was 50 miles so asking an old farmer around here is kinda hard. Got a pretty good AGCO dealer pretty close now. Cloest JD and CaseIH dealers are great if you have nearly new equipment. I'm real tired of "we can have it next week" when I have hay on the ground. I currently have a Ford 8N (great tractor) IH M (good tractor in it's day) and a 1206 IH. I'm looking for something to replace the M that will run a haybine and square baler, lite field work and have decent hydraulics and live PTO (I don't count the AC power director system as live PTO, to me live means when you step on the clutch the PTO stays running). 3 piont is a must too.

I'm willing and able to work on something to include doing some work on a cab. But when it's -30 without the wind a cab is a very nice thing to have, even if it's ratty. I split the 1206 fopr a clutch this spring and will be starting a engine rebuild on the 8N next week. ONly thing really wrong with the 1206 is that even when doing lite work it's a fuel hog.

Rick

Ford jerkomatic and JD powershift were invented, by the same guy, He's still alive, I think saw an article on him, in lancaster farming paper, this summer.If ya ask me, the AC High/low wet clutch was the most dependable!

His name was Harold Brock. Sorry to break the bad news to ya, but he died last spring. He didn't "invent" either, but was chief engineer on the SelectOspeed, and lead engineer on the development of the 3020/4020. Many others were involved. Deere had already began development of the PowerShift before Brock left Ford.

I do not know what color you are upset at, but around here the
MF's have the poorest selection of parts for the older tractors. It
seems like green and red have the best support.

(quoted from post at 15:12:44 09/21/11) If ya ask me, the AC High/low wet clutch was the most dependable!

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I wouldn't know about that. I do know they have a reputation for weak trannies and jumping out of gear and include that with trying to steer, activate the hydraulics and stop all at the same time while keeping the PTO running is a joke! been there done that. No more AC's for me, not after the 190XT....guess you could say I had 2 AC's at once......my first and my last.

Rick

(quoted from post at 18:45:00 09/21/11) I do not know what color you are upset at, but around here the
MF's have the poorest selection of parts for the older tractors. It
seems like green and red have the best support.

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David while that may be the case my cloest JD and CaseIH dealers are really only worried about the big guys with new equipment. I have a round baler CaseIH 3650. Needed bearing for the rollers. CaseIH none! Next week is what I was told. The baler was made for CaseIH by New Idea....now owned by AGCO. Small AGCO dealer had em in stock and went to the trouble to cross em over so I could get back in the field. Had the same kinda problems with my haybine too. I can't count on support from JD or CaseIH using older equipment unless I'm going to get a crystel ball and know what to preorder before it breaks!

Rick

There is no doubt that the dealers favor the customers with the
new big equipment. That business is their bread and butter. They
really provide parts and service on the older equipment as a
courtesy.

I have had no luck with finding older massey parts, but can get
parts for IH and Deere. Maybe it all depends on the area and the
dealer in that area. I have not tried to get parts for Allis or Case.

something to replace an m would be a 165,175, 255,265,275 these are about the same weight and hp range equal to and more , that might could be bought in your price range,a cab i don't know about,main difference between 165&175 is the engines and lift arm sizes these two sometimes didn't come with an auxiliary hyd pump to operate the remotes, they were supplied by a diverter valve off the lift pump,dry so so disc brakes and power steering that as it wore caused excessive steering wheel play or hard steering one way and power the other,the 255,265, 275,were the same except for different engines and lift arm set-ups most came with one remote some had two supplied by an auxiliary pump,wet brakes on these worked good with a long service life,steering problems were corrected using a full hyd steering ,as for multi-power on the different ones i've used it gave good service may have been the way we used them,as for transmissions i prefer the 8 speed, did run into a 255 that some how got a high gear rear end for standard rear wheels put into a row crop model with 15.5-38 rear wheels, it would out run the other one with the same transmission ,of coarse it caused the engine to lug to hard pulling a heavy load in the field, always had to down shift to lower gear than the other tractor,never run a gas model of any of these but the diesels had a long service life were all real good on fuel use

(quoted from post at 19:21:47 09/21/11) There is no doubt that the dealers favor the customers with the
new big equipment. That business is their bread and butter. They
really provide parts and service on the older equipment as a
courtesy.

I have had no luck with finding older massey parts, but can get
parts for IH and Deere. Maybe it all depends on the area and the
dealer in that area. I have not tried to get parts for Allis or Case.

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Not really a courtesy, they make money on em! Was just at the Big Iorn show in Fargo last week and tlked to a CaseIH factory rep. He claims that the dealers really make thier money on parts and service.

Just found out today that my BIL can't get a reman engine from CaseIH for a 1970 826 diesel. They sell a new short block that can be made to work but the head has to be modified to fit. Total cost for the short block and head work.....12k! I also know from talking to a few guys with AC's that the 100 series and older are getting tough to find parts for. Guess I may have to start looking for an IH 656 or 706. Really wanted to get away from having to deal with the CASEIH dealer in my area. Problem with JD's round these parts is folks thinks there is gold under that green paint. Ford 3000/4000/5000 would be nice but here they start at 4k and go up fast unless yer UD (member over on the Ford side) and find them deals. I've always been told until now that MF's are good tractors......but I'm not getting that feeling here.


Thanks

Rick

AGCO/MF has their Heritage Parts catalog. It covers all the older Fergies and MF's. The catalog is available online. With that and with the amazing internet, UPS/Fed Ex/USPS, and the ability to pay via bank cards, parts are abundantly easy to get and no farther away that your keyboard. I own green, 2 shades of red, orange, and blue. I've found MF parts to be among the EASIEST and in most cases the cheapest to come by. I've got a Deere dealer that gets me dang near anything in a day or two, which makes him the quickest, but I've never waited more than 3 days for any MF parts, and if I'm in a bind, next day air will get it there....the next day.

No dealer close to home is NOT an excuse any longer.

(quoted from post at 09:17:30 09/22/11) AGCO/MF has their Heritage Parts catalog. It covers all the older Fergies and MF's. The catalog is available online. With that and with the amazing internet, UPS/Fed Ex/USPS, and the ability to pay via bank cards, parts are abundantly easy to get and no farther away that your keyboard. I own green, 2 shades of red, orange, and blue. I've found MF parts to be among the EASIEST and in most cases the cheapest to come by. I've got a Deere dealer that gets me dang near anything in a day or two, which makes him the quickest, but I've never waited more than 3 days for any MF parts, and if I'm in a bind, next day air will get it there....the next day.

No dealer close to home is NOT an excuse any longer.

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It is if you don't use plastic! Guess I may have to break down and get a debit card. And with your info maybe start really looking for an MF before spring.

Thanks everyone for all the advice.

Rick

Hi,

The MF 500 series is a good option. It has a decent cab, and it has a 2 spool hydraulic valve for loaders and whatever. And the valve can be adjusted to go from a one way valve to a two way valve in case you have a lifter with only lift and no push down. (single acting cylinder).

The MF 550 would have the Perkins 3 cylinder diesel engine with 47 horserpower, and the MF 565 the Perkins AD4-236, with 62 horsepower I think.
And hydrostatic steering on all of them, eliminating much of the trouble with a wobbly front end on the 100 serie.
But, by all means, a 165 or 175, or even the 15 with 47 horsepower does a good job, and the parts for fixing the steering is quite inexpensive.

If you do not have a MF dealer close, there is always aftermarket companies that helps with that.
But, maybe you need a credit or debet card for that. I mean if you are buying online.

Be aware, the 100 series can be divided in 2, dry brakes and wet brakes... both disc brakes. The tractors with wet brakes are heavier and bigger. The rear axles are much stronger. They are easy to spot, the dry brake tractors has round axle housings, and the wet brake tractors has square axles.

MF are normally easy to work on. You also have the option of the little older MF 65, with 50something horsepower. Often without a cab, and you will have to arrange your own hydraulic system for a loader. But, you have to do that on the 100 series too.

A 65 is about 300 pounds under 2 ton, the MF 165 with dry brakes close to 2 tons, and the MF 165 with wet brakes I think is about 2.1 - 2.2 tons, now talking about 2 wheel drive tractors.

Not sure about the parts in the US, but in Europe all parts for these ones are easy to find and cheap. At least for those with a diesel engine.


Bill

Thanks BIll, upper mid west here and yea the Massey dealer is 12 miles now. Many years ago it was 50 so thats an improvement.

Unfortunitly the 500 series is a little more than I want to pay. At that point I can get better finiance rates on new and I really don't want to go into debt for a tractor unless I have to.

Rick

Hi Rick,

I fell in love with the upper midwest in 2004... left a part of me there... never gone back... sadly.

You said 40-60 hp, Then you will be within that even with a MF 135 with Perkins diesel... one of the most troublefree tractor on the planet. 47 hp, about 1,6 tons, lift I think 2750 lbs on the link arms, and you need to carry an empty diesel can with you to take some of the fuel that comes out of the tank when using it... I have never seen a more economical engine than the A3-152 or AD3-152 engine... they are marvels.
Well, that about the emtpy can was a joke, ... but the MF 35 anf 135 is well known for using very little fuel.

And parts are plentyful and inexpensive.

Perhaps you need something bigger, and then the MF 165 with the 203 diesel engine is a little bigger, still very nice on the fuel.

With a loader the 165 with power steering is of course better. But, maybe the 135 was often sold with powersteering in the US. Here most were sold with manual steering, and that is a bit hard on the arms with a loader... important with some concrete in the rear end to keep it down.

Bill

Ok thanks Bill. I move bales with my 1206 IH with a loader or my tractor/loader/backhoe so I'm not looking for something to put a loader on. I'm a small farmer and only work about 100 acres. I need something as an in between tractor. The Ford 8N gets worked hard and the 1206 gets the heavy stuff but I need something that will do some square baling and run the haybine. Round balers requires 70 HP or bigger. I would love something with a decent cab cause it's pretty brutal at -30F blowing snow in the winter.

Rick