Brakes quandry

The brakes on my T0-35 were pretty much non-existent. After seeing the shoes had only about 1/16" remaining, I replaced them, had the drums turned, adjusted them according to the methods a few posters listed in the archives here, and I can't say that they're any better than before. I also "burned them in" according to my owner's manual. I even defeated the springs on the spring-loaded brake rods so as to apply more force directly to the actuating cams/shoes. Minor improvement. I read of others whose brakes can allow turning on a dime. What am I missing?
Thanks,

Roger

rego,
are you sure you do not have oil on brake linens.

i thought the right brake on my to-35 was shot from years of plowing and hard turning right.

all it needed was adjustment, just adjusted it out until the wheel would not turn then backed off until wheel was free.

both brakes work great, little tractor will spin around on a dime.

parking brake works good, but uses only the right brake, i do not have the piece that allows both brakes to lock together when you apply the parking brake.

always wondered why the tractor did not have it, it may have been installed at the factory and someone took it off as it got in the way.

keep working you have just missed something.

Did you adjust the brakes through the rear backing plates after installation? With the right wheel jacked up off the ground, use a brake tool to adjust the right brake (push forward to front of tractor)until the brake keeps the wheel from spinning. Back-off a click or 2 and check pedal free travel. Adjust other wheel the same way and Viola' you should have brakes. These are not self-adjusting as used in cars, You have to do the adjusting yourself.Good luck!

Yes, I adjusted the star wheel with the wheels off the ground and with the brake rods disconnected as I have read here and elsewhere. When I apply the brakes with the wheels off the ground, the wheels do stop. However, when the tractor is moving, even slowly, the braking response is slow.
The shoes are new- no grease or oil present anywhere near.

RogerCH NY"](reply to post at 19:56:37 06/09/09) [/quote]

I believe that the answer to yours and the other poster's poor brake performance is quite simple.
First of all did you fit brand new shoes or ones that had been relined?
With the brakes applied, stand at the rear wheel and look down onto both operating shafts at the end of the rods. Are they vertical or maybe leaning forward at the bottom.
If they are then the chances are that the cam blocks on the end of the brake shafts will be worn top and bottom. If you have worn metal shoes at the point of contact with the cam this will make the problem worse. What is happening is that you are loosing leverage on the shoes as the arm approaches or passes vertical. You can stand on the pedal with little effect.
Skimming the drums is not wise as by increasing the diameter you will have to wait for the shoes to wear to suit.
To rectify this problem you will need to remove the drums and shoes. Draw out the brake shaft a little and clean up both cam faces with a small angle grinder. Build up the worn area with weld and grind back. You can leave each face a little proud. Disconnect the brake rods at the front and tie the pedal fully up to the steering wheel.
Refit shoes and drums and adjust until the drums just go tight. Adjust the brake rods so that you can just fit the pins and splitpins. Slacked off about 4 clicks and refit the wheels and carry out final balancing adjustment.
I have done this to about 15 20s, 35s and 135s over the last 30 years or so and every one stopped on a sixpence (dime?) afterwards.
The operating arm should be in a noticeably different position after.
DavidP

Roger, If I were you I would repeat the "burning
in" and maybe a little more intense.Our mechanics
would simple drive forward with one brake on just
before the point of stopping the wheel til hot
and then allow it to cool. I had forgotten that
was in the manual but it was very effective. Chuck

Hi David,
I've read your many replies on the subject before starting the project. Thank you for the info. I've answered your points below in UPPERCASE.

First of all did you fit brand new shoes or ones that had been relined? NEW, FROM THIS SITE.
With the brakes applied, stand at the rear wheel and look down onto both operating shafts at the end of the rods. Are they vertical or maybe leaning forward at the bottom. HAVEN'T DONE THIS.
If they are then the chances are that the cam blocks on the end of the brake shafts will be worn top and bottom. THE CAMS ARE SQUARE, NOT WORN MUCH AT ALL.
Skimming the drums is not wise as by increasing the diameter you will have to wait for the shoes to wear to suit. NEW SHOES WOULD HAVE TO CONFORM EITHER WAY- THE ADJUSTER MAKES UP FOR THE .015~,020" REMOVED. AS WELL, I DID A “BURN IN” PER THE MANUAL.
Disconnect the brake rods at the front and tie the pedal fully up to the steering wheel. DONE.
Refit shoes and drums and adjust until the drums just go tight. DONE. Adjust the brake rods so that you can just fit the pins and splitpins. ALSO EACH PEDAL DONE SEPARATELY, HELD UP WITH A BLOCK. Slacked off about 4 clicks and refit the wheels and carry out final balancing adjustment. DONE, ALTHOUGH I THINK BACKED OFF BEFORE REFITTING THE RODS.
I have done this to about 15 20s, 35s and 135s over the last 30 years or so and every one stopped on a sixpence (dime?) afterwards. MINE WOULD TAKE BETWEEN 68 AND 85 DIMES PLACED IN A LINE WHILE GOING 5 MPH.
The operating arm should be in a noticeably different position after. IT YOU MEAN PEDALS, YES.

Please describe "final balancing adjustment".

Thanks again,

Roger

Hello Roger,
First of all I would question the 'burn-in' effort. Yes, without question all tractors will improve efficiency with use. But in the past if it has been necessary to work the brakes very hard to try and achieve efficiency it has invariably not worked. This is where the next step of the cam build comes in.
To answer your questions;
I have never used brand new shoes. We have always relined them ourselves using appropriate rivetting tooling. Whilst on the shoes, have you fitted genuine Ferodo or ST1 19-1 or proprietary brand shoes? Just wondering if some non-gen ones might be c**p.
It is essential to check the position of the operating arms on the shafts. If they are past vertical when applied you will be loosing leverage on the shoes. This arises from wear on the shoe tips and/or cams.
Any wear should be built up and ground back.
The amount normally skimmed is minimal but can add to a change of diameter. Have you checked that the shoe faces are parallel? Is there visible contact across the full width of both shoes? My gen MF 135 manual makes no mention of a 'burn in'.
You must refit the rods/pins before backing off the adjusters.
In terms of stopping, a system in good order will give up instant lockup at 5mph and fractionally later on concrete/tarmac.
No, not the pedals in a different position. I'm referring to the arm on the brake shaft. With the repair carried out the arm should be leaning rearwards towards the 5 o'clock position for the feft side and seven o'clock for the right. The pedal position will also be very different.
Final balancing is carried out on tarmac/concrete where the pedals are locked together and the brakes given fine adjustment so that they both lock together equally. A test for this is to engage 2nd or third low and drive with the your hands off the steering wheel. If there is any tendency to pull to one side then that side is a bit tight and needs to be slackened one or two clicks, not the other side tightened. Ensure that there is no binding.

Cheers

DavidP

Roger,
At the front of the brake rods there are adjustable clevis'. Do the rods look to be in a position which is almost all the way in? Or possibly about halfway with a full thread in the clevis?
If they are well in this is an indication of wear in the cams and or shoes. Are you sure that you have brand new, never fitted before shoes? Sorry to labour the point here but its possible that they may have been painted to look like new, in which case the tips may be worn.
DavidP