2750 / 2140 3Pl mechanical damage, maybe?

Bushed · Oct 17, 2019

On my Aussie 2140 2wd which is about the equivalent to north American 2750 utility tractor, I think that somewhere within the hydraulic system or the mechanical workings I have maybe broken, bent or damaged something.

What happened? I was brush hogging and went down a small embankment, about 3 ft high, but was a little steeper than I reckoned. At the bottom I went to raise the 3Pl and it would not lift. The arms moved a little but would not lift and load.

I disconnected the brush hog and the following would or wouldn't happen.

The steering was a little jerky when going from lock to lock.

I could not select high range on the 8 sp transmission.

The handbrake seemed to be at least partially locked on.

When I raised the lift arms by hand, they now appear to be locked in the raised position and I can't get them to lower, even with the engine turned off.

There seems to be a slight clattering noise somewhere from within the transmission.

Any thoughts or ideas as to what my problem might be. The pump has been checked and new seals etc fitted.

Bushed · Oct 17, 2019

PS I tried to edit my post to add the following, but editing is disabled.

When I went down the small embankment the brush hog might have been forced up to a higher position then what it usually lifts up to. Could this possibley have damaged or stressed some internal linkages or adjustments?

Tx Jim · Oct 17, 2019

Have you opened up rate of drop screw under seat(CCW) at least 1 round? Sounds as if cam follower or spring inside rockshaft housing may have broken. Do you have access to a "bore scope" so you can visually inspect internal linkage?

cannonball · Oct 17, 2019

this is reason I run a chain for my third link......

Tx Jim · Oct 17, 2019

IMHO utilizing a chain in lieu of a centerlink won't keep ""front of a 3 pt attached implement"" from raising draft links/rockshaft too high if a sufficient hump/depression/embankment is encountered

Bushed · Oct 17, 2019

(quoted from post at 11:38:10 10/17/19)
Have you opened up rate of drop screw under seat(CCW) at least 1 round? Sounds as if cam follower or spring inside rockshaft housing may have broken. Do you have access to a "bore scope" so you can visually inspect internal linkage?

Yes Jim, rate of drop valve opened sufficiently. One of the first things I thought of when it happened.
Tractor is at the dealers at this time, they seem to be unsure of the problem. I will check with them if they have a bore scope/camera tomorrow. Do you suggest an examination through the oil filler hole?
Do you think it is possible that I have stressed, bent broken something as a result of over loading the lift arms in an upward direction?
It's just past midnight here now.

Tx Jim · Oct 17, 2019

I've never utilized a bore scope to look in through hyd filler hole but it's either that method or remove rockshaft housing for a visual inspection. It's possible that the spring broke/came loose or cam follower is broken or out of linkage.

Bushed · Oct 17, 2019

(quoted from post at 18:55:49 10/17/19)
It's possible that the spring broke/came loose or cam follower is broken or out of linkage.

Jim, would the spring you refer to be part no. 8 or 13 on your exploded view and the cam is the part shown at the very top of the exploded view, shown between the numbers 3 and 4?. I believe that cam engages the actual rockshaft, am I correct?

Tx Jim · Oct 17, 2019

The cam follower isn't boldly outlined similar to other parts items & doesn't have a ID #. The spring I was referring to is key 8

Bushed · Oct 17, 2019

OK, thanks Jim, I've got what you meant. I'll let you know how it goes after I return from the dealer in the next hour or two.

Bushed · Oct 17, 2019

OK, the news is not good. The dealer found some chunky bits of metal (ferrous) in the intake screen filter and some finer grinding type in the main filter housing. I only put new oil and filter in the tractor about 100 hours ago. Typical!!
Dealer is going to lift the cab and look under the rock shaft housing to see what may have happened.
This looks like it is going to get expensive.

Tx Jim · Oct 18, 2019

Any repair in that depth at dealership will be expensive. If either of the 2 parts I referred to need replacing the cab would require R&R.

Bushed · Oct 18, 2019

(quoted from post at 11:44:14 10/18/19)
Any repair in that depth at dealership will be expensive. If either of the 2 parts I referred to need replacing the cab would require R&R.

Yeah, if a had the facilities to lift the cab I would have a go at fixing it, but I don't.

Bushed · Oct 23, 2019

Well. I was right when I guessed I had caused some mechanical damage to the 3PL internal mechanicals. It seems that the roll/spring pin that connects the piston rod to the rockshaft crank arm was broken causing the piston rod to come adrift into the top of the transmission.
Long story short, the top cover was somehow overloaded causing it to break off some of the internal securing bolt lugs thus the top cover is U/S.

The hydraulic cylinder has been damaged and is U/S, along with the piston.

The reason the handbrake seemed to be jammed on is because the piston rod was crushed downward onto the handbrake brake band and brake drum. This caused some grinding from the brake drum that contaminated the rest of the transmission with grindings, so the diff will have to come out to allow the brake drum and brake band to be inspected for damage along with all the lower bearings for contamination with grindings. Big job for an old tractor.

The good news is that I already had a used top cover, hyd. cylinder, piston and rod. These parts have been in my shed for about 10 years since I bought them for a previous repair to the hydraulics. These parts have been in my way for years and I actually contemplated getting rid of them a few times as they were always taking up space and I thought I would never use any of them.
I'm really glad I kept hold of the parts as I will be using nearly all of them for this repair, if I go ahead with the repair, after accessing what other damage may have happened when the diff comes out.

Moral to the story is, - never overload the 3PL in the reverse or upward manner, because they were never meant to be loaded like this, but only in a downward direction.

Tx Jim · Oct 23, 2019

Thanks for update. I wish you luck on the repair.
Jim

Bushed · Nov 12, 2019

Does anyone know what the flow and pressure specs are for a 50 cm3 main pump are?

Bushed · Nov 12, 2019

(quoted from post at 22:27:20 11/12/19) Does anyone know what the flow and pressure specs are for a 50 cm3 main pump are?

PS to my above post, 50 cm3 (cc) equals 3.05 CI (cubic inches).
So I need volume, pressure at what RMP. Thanks

Tx Jim · Nov 13, 2019

Below are hyd spec's for JD 2140

Bushed · Nov 13, 2019

Thanks Tx Jim. I definitely have a 50cc or 3 CI pump but I keep on finding differing flow rates and specs for these pumps from 23 to 32.2 US gal per min. Could these pumps have differing flow rates, depending on the application?
Also, what is the difference as in the specs you provided between pump flow and total flow?

Tx Jim · Nov 13, 2019

I have no idea what the author meant between pump & total flow. I seriously doubt that a Mannheim built tractor ever had 32.2 GPM flow. I think the trans pump output is too low for that much GPM.

Bushed · Nov 13, 2019

(quoted from post at 13:49:30 11/13/19)
I have no idea what the author meant between pump & total flow. I seriously doubt that a Mannheim built tractor ever had 32.2 GPM flow. I think the trans pump output is too low for that much GPM.

As you may well know the 2140 was not available in the US, but the US 2750 is about the closest equivalent I can find.Here in Aust. it seems that the 50cm3 - 3CI pump was at least and option on the later model 2140 (serial no. >430000). It does also have a large cap-acity hyd. oil filter fitted also. I do have a JD parts publication which indicates this model was available with the larger pump as above. Here is the link to that publication -

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/83687/referrer/navigation/pgId/2745364

Bushed · Nov 13, 2019

(quoted from post at 13:49:30 11/13/19)
I have no idea what the author meant between pump & total flow. I seriously doubt that a Mannheim built tractor ever had 32.2 GPM flow. I think the trans pump output is too low for that much GPM.

As you may well know the 2140 was not available in the US, but the US 2750 is about the closest equivalent I can find.Here in Aust. it seems that the 50cm3 - 3CI pump was at least and option on the later model 2140 (serial no. >430000). It does also have a large cap-acity hyd. oil filter fitted also. I do have a JD parts publication which indicates this model was available with the larger pump as above. Here is the link to that publication -

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/83687/referrer/navigation/pgId/2745364

Tx Jim · Nov 14, 2019

Even the larger utility tractors such as 3255 utilize that same hyd pump but only show 22-23 GPM hyd pump flow.

Bushed · Dec 3, 2019

Still chasing problems with this pulsating hydraulics system. Do the ports in the R/S cylinder housing for the pressure and discharge valves wear or become damaged or deformed or is any wear most likely to be confined to the valves and seats only. Will replacing the pressure and discharge valves and seats be the most likely fix. Hydraulic are still pulsating when 3PL is raised with plenty of weight on the arms? and there is some misting when looking in the filler hole.

Tx Jim · Dec 4, 2019

I suppose you've checked to be sure the RS control valves linkage clearances aren't too tight? Have you performed the L/D linkage adjustment procedures outlined in JD tech manual? From viewing 2140 parts catalog it appears the following PN's are
The part AR102477(key 8), AL64833(key 30) are no longer available.

Bushed · Dec 21, 2019

Apparently the R/S control valves are worn. How is it determined if the control valves have excessive wear? I can't find any data or specifications on these valves, their seats and the actual bores of the R/S cylinder that house the valves. Has anyone here had any experience with these valves?

Tx Jim · Dec 22, 2019

Has anyone lately adjusted the L/D mechanism as outlined in 2750 or 2140 JD tech manual following ALL the steps?

Bushed · Dec 22, 2019

(quoted from post at 12:59:23 12/22/19)
Has anyone lately adjusted the L/D mechanism as outlined in 2750 or 2140 JD tech manual following ALL the steps?

After much messing about the dealer has finally got the problems sorted and it appears that the hydraulic problems are fixed. Yes, all adjustments have been made, along with a new R/S cylinder and valves.

Bushed · Dec 24, 2019

OK, problems are still persisting with hyd chatter and heavy or no power steering, Slow to react 3PL raising, front pump running hot at about 170 degrees F (76 C) on a hottish day (100 degrees F - 38 C) after about 2 hours brush hogging. Front pump seems to be continually pumping, thus the added heat in the pump and oil. What causes the front pump to continually run, any ideas? I'm not running any external hydraulics.

Merry Xmas to all!

Tx Jim · Dec 25, 2019

Normally what you described is caused from internal hyd leak.

With engine operating @ about 200F,3 pt raised look in open hyd oil filler hole behind seat for moving oil. Utilize a laser thermometer to check temps of each hyd control valve after reaching normal operating temp.

Does this tractor have a FEL installed? If so what type valve controls FEL(ind or scv)?

Power steering control valve is a possible cause of hyd problem.

Does this tractor have hyd hi-low &/or ind pto? If so those hyd functions have a long history of internal leaking oil supply tubes.

Bushed · Dec 25, 2019

Thanks Tx Jim, I'm about my wits end and sick of throwing money at these "repairs" whilst achieving very little as I have had a new R/S cylinder assembly installed on advice from the dealer. Cost me about AuD$2000 for the assembly, but the problems persist.

No FEL attached but does have an independent 2 speed PTO.

Tx Jim · Dec 26, 2019

You're very welcome.

My experience serving as a JD dealer service manager was some ""so called technicians"" tend to do more parts replacement than diagnostics. To correctly repair hyd problems requires very good & thorough diagnostics not just replacing suspected faulty parts.

Bushed · Dec 26, 2019

Yes Tx Jim same here in Oz, when they stopped calling them mechanics and started calling them technicians, we went away from repairing, reconditioning, reusing if able to be, to throwing away sometimes perfectly good parts and components to replacing with new.
I suppose it is easier, sometimes quicker, but certainly much more expensive, but what do they care? it's easy to be careless with other peoples money.

2750 / 2140 3Pl mechanical damage, maybe?

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