8650 engine conversion?

7520619

Member
We have a 1988 8650 with a locked up engine. 12000 hours. My question is...does anyone make an adapter plate anymore from JD big block to Detroit, Cummins, Cat, etc...or even to SAE? Ive given up trying to find a reasonably priced used engine for this. Ive found a couple, but 10 grand for an engine with unknown hours is not what I consider within reason. Ive never been a fan of the 619 in an 86 anyway...just so torqueless it barely can drag around its own weight. I called the guys in New York that make frame kits for these tractors, they didnt sound like they wanted to do any for 86s anymore and that route is fairly pricey anyway. My thoughts are trying to adapt an 8v71 into this tractor...and do some bracing and reinforcing on the silly frame that it already has. 8vs are very rugged blocks and can take a very high amount of abuse as is. Any help would be appreciated and no, im not going to waste 1 penny rebuilding that torqueless pile of an engine
 
I know somebody who went through something similar with an 8630. 10-11,000 is about the going rate. I understand the apprehension of a take out engine but are you going to be that much further ahead with the 8V?
 
I can't imagine anything being more gutless than the 466 in my old Landlord's 8440 Deere, even when
turned up to 210-220 hp from it's stock 180, if the tach wasn't reading 1500-1600 and climbing when I
dropped the Glenco Soil-saver in the ground it would lug down and die. The 86's must have been real
frustrating to run.

Only engine I can think of with less low end grunt is a Detroit 8V-71. Don't EVER let the tach drop
below 2000-2200 rpm. Once wound up tight you should have 20-30 more HP than a stock 8650 depending on
which 8V-71 you have.

Buy a REAL good pair of noise cancelling headphones. Definitely use the OEM muffler.
 
(quoted from post at 05:06:07 04/26/18) I know somebody who went through something similar with an 8630. 10-11,000 is about the going rate. I understand the apprehension of a take out engine but are you going to be that much further ahead with the 8V?

At least 8vs can be bought reasonably...usually less than $2500. The thing about the 71 series is that it is very rare for them to blow up just like that and let you down just when the tractor is needed the most. Ive been around them since I was a little kid as dad always had at least 3 or 4 in his semi fleet. Like he always said...the 71 detroits would always make it home, even with scored pistons. No other engine can say that. I know the 8v71s arent perfect...but at least they will get the job done. Ive had bad experience overhauling these big block deeres. Those 2 stroke detroits are much more reliable that way
 
If it has that many hours just park tractor and go get another
tractor. 10 grand will get you an early 80s decent Steiger,
Versatile, or even another JD. I would do that instead of going
through the time and effort of trying shoe horn a Detroit in it.
 

I am a huge Versatile and Steiger (the best tractor we ever had was an 800 with a 400 big cam in it). This 8650 has 3pt and pto, and the rest of the tractor is great condition. Hate to junk it out just because of that junk engine. There is plenty of room for a v8 in there. I know someone out there has the blueprints to make such of an adapter...just finding it is the problem. Salvage on these things isnt much anymore. Id rather convert it and get a few more years out of it.
 
(quoted from post at 00:10:46 04/26/18) We have a 1988 8650 with a locked up engine. 12000 hours. My question is...does anyone make an adapter plate anymore from JD big block to Detroit, Cummins, Cat, etc...or even to SAE? Ive given up trying to find a reasonably priced used engine for this. Ive found a couple, but 10 grand for an engine with unknown hours is not what I consider within reason. Ive never been a fan of the 619 in an 86 anyway...just so torqueless it barely can drag around its own weight. I called the guys in New York that make frame kits for these tractors, they didnt sound like they wanted to do any for 86s anymore and that route is fairly pricey anyway. My thoughts are trying to adapt an 8v71 into this tractor...and do some bracing and reinforcing on the silly frame that it already has. 8vs are very rugged blocks and can take a very high amount of abuse as is. Any help would be appreciated and no, im not going to waste 1 penny rebuilding that torqueless pile of an engine

A well built 619 with the upgraded oil pump will make 300HP all day with the right turbo and inter cooler without excess smoke . Phoenix Adapters probably have the parts on the shelf . An in-line six swaps with a inline six with fewer head aches vs a V8. http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/1/0/109-john-deere-8650.html
 
Maybe they do...but at over 20 grand, Im not interested. Detroits are a dime a dozen and they dont just blow up out of the blue for no reason.
 
The way that the front axle bolts to the front of the engine is the killing factor for any block configuration...
 
I would elimimate that nonsense and put a heavy cross brace to replace it. That joke of a frame would have to be beefed up with some 2" plate to achieve that though.
 
Your line of thought is in the right direction,,it just will not be cost effective...I have thought about this many times... I use to baby sit about 40 of these back in the old days..
 
In the 1960's Kinze was putting Detroit engines in 5020's. It looks like they dropped the re-power business in 2007. Check around someone might still have the drawings for the bell housing adapter and could machine one for you. There may also have drawing to adapt several other engines to your bell housing.

Besides the problem with twisting on the engine block, I would also look into how much fuel economy will be reduced and how much extra noise there will be from a 2 cycle diesel.

You could probably replace the tractor for less cost than to repower it. What is the salvage value of the tractor without an engine? Someone else might be willing to put a remanufactured engine in it.
 
Im not worried about noise...I owned an IH 4568 for 8 years...lol. I really hate to scrap it because the rest of the tractor is in really good shape (except a couple tires). The way things are now, people around here are too spoiled to want the hassle of installing an engine. These model Deere are the best dozer tractors ever made for that purpose. Im pretty handy at modifying stuff so the cost wouldnt be too bad. I just want a tractor that I can afford to work on. I know exactly what the old 2 strokes are...they are far from perfect but they wont let you down. There is a reason the military used them for decades. I think it would be kinda cool just to do it too. One of a kind. Those frame kits are great and im sure the best way to do it, but then you have to get tin work custom made and those kits are just about the price of a rebuilt 619. I should have known better than to buy one of these, but we are the 3rd owner, and I know the other 2 owners well (the 2nd owner is my uncle)...it was taken care of well. I guess I cant complain too much, we got over 2000 hours use before it blew.
 
Meade did a 7520 with Detroit.
It looked great. It was at the 1/2 century of progress.

I do not think that it would cost you a fortune. A VT903 like was an the big Massey would be also about the same cost. Many people don't like them tough.

Internet picture:

f663a088f9b0f389df2ccd568156b853.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 09:18:32 04/26/18) Meade did a 7520 with Detroit.
It looked great. It was at the 1/2 century of progress.

I do not think that it would cost you a fortune. A VT903 like was an the big Massey would be also about the same cost. Many people don't like them tough.

Internet picture:

f663a088f9b0f389df2ccd568156b853.jpg
Im in love!
 
Company I drove for had a LOT of 6V-92TTA Detroits. 307-308 hp, geared to run about 68-69 mph, get around 4- 4-1/2 mpg. The noise in an S2200 IH or TranStar II or GMC Astro 95 was deafening. After 2-3 hours you wanted to rupture your ear drums. But those little 552 cid V-6's would lug down and pull surprisingly well, they all had 9-speed Road-Rangers. 318's, 8V-71's needed 10 or better yet, 13 speeds. Company down the road a mile from us had ALL Astro 95's with 6V-92TTA's and Allison transmissions, 6 speeds, 2 man teams in them all. Painfully slow trucks I bet.

We had one truck with an 8V-92TTA, 435 hp, TranStar II, would eventually run 75 mph if you gave it a flat 4-5 miles to build up speed. Got about 3-3 1/2 mpg. That would be the engine to put in an 8650.
 
I had a 8v92 silver that would move out very well. The tag setting showed 475 hp and 1450 torque but it did a lot more than that. No problem at all kickin 12.7 500 hp or N14s of the day. I love 92 series, and the noise is not an issue at all as long as you have it turboed and kerp new mufflers on it. I want to stay away from a wet sleeved engine because of the twisty frame issue. The old 71s will run just fine. My dad always had several in his fleet in the 70s. I currently own an Astro with an 8v71 that has a 20' grain box. Ive driven several over the years. Ill take a few oil leaks any day over an extremely unpredictable engine like the 50 series 619. They give 0 advance warning. One day they're great...the next day you are dead in the water. Poor engine for that heavy of a tractor
 
(quoted from post at 13:01:46 04/26/18) A v8 Detroit has less torque than a a Briggs and Stratton and you got to have it at 2500 rpm all day

If a Detroit was such a gutless piece of crap . How did they do so well in bulldozers , dirt movers , escavators, pumps, generators , marine propulsion etc .
 
Would the bell housing from an 8850 do any good, they had a V8 and the 60 and 70 series 4WD have the 855 Cummins. Just trying to help.
 
What he wants to sink in the tub does not really matter as long as he likes it and he has fun doing it.
If the Detroits are cheap, easy to fix, easy to find, he loves the deafening sound, they are a good choice.
Even an old Scania V8 out of an old Case will be a great engine, and I will not see a problem if he bolts a old Air Cooled Deutz in there as well, if you want to go to the very exotic road.

The detroit is not totally crazy choice because the tractor will be usable due to availability of parts and IF the conversion is well done, this will have appeal to collectors someday.
 
(quoted from post at 19:46:47 04/26/18) Would the bell housing from an 8850 do any good, they had a V8 and the 60 and 70 series 4WD have the 855 Cummins. Just trying to help.
Yes, the 955 v8 should have the same pattern. I used to own one of them long ago, and was contemplating a 903 swap eventually in it. Sold it before it blew. Those are a great tractor, badass doesnt do it justice. I never had enough implement to justify fuel usage...only had it 6 months.
 
Don,t know way anybody would want to put a 2 cycle in any any more as some say all they are good fore is to make smoke and noise out of good fuel my chose would be ether 60 series Detroit or 855 Cummins
 
(quoted from post at 16:42:48 04/28/18) Don,t know way anybody would want to put a 2 cycle in any any more as some say all they are good fore is to make smoke and noise out of good fuel my chose would be ether 60 series Detroit or 855 Cummins
I love both of those engines but there are 2 reasons why that wont happen. #1. There is no way an 8650 transmission will take the torque of either of those engines without the transmission grenading in very short order. #2 length of the engine...Im trying to keep the tractor original looking with original tin work. Im going to beef up the frame, not lengthen it. No way either of those engines would fit in that space. V8 is the only option, and the v8 detroit is the most economical and reliable option. I like 903s but they have the same tendency as the 619 of blowing up with out any reason or advance notice. Easier and more reliable rebuilds with the 2 stroke detroit.
 
(quoted from post at 21:41:55 04/28/18)
(quoted from post at 16:42:48 04/28/18) Don,t know way anybody would want to put a 2 cycle in any any more as some say all they are good fore is to make smoke and noise out of good fuel my chose would be ether 60 series Detroit or 855 Cummins
I love both of those engines but there are 2 reasons why that wont happen. #1. There is no way an 8650 transmission will take the torque of either of those engines without the transmission grenading in very short order. #2 length of the engine...Im trying to keep the tractor original looking with original tin work. Im going to beef up the frame, not lengthen it. No way either of those engines would fit in that space. V8 is the only option, and the v8 detroit is the most economical and reliable option. I like 903s but they have the same tendency as the 619 of blowing up with out any reason or advance notice. Easier and more reliable rebuilds with the 2 stroke detroit.

On the other hand, the OPERATOR has a bit to do with "survival" of the transmission.

An "OPERATOR" could possibly treat the tractor like an 8650 no matter WHAT engine was swapped in, and the powertrain wouldn't know the difference.

It probably wouldn't survive if run by a power freak coal roll'in "cowbay", tho!
 
That doesnt change the fact that the 60 series is 9 inches longer than the 619...nor the fact that the 855 is 13 inches loger. I owned a 800 Versatile that had a 400 Big Cam that was button up to 440 hp and had no transmission problems in the 8000 hours that I owned it...so dont accuse me of not knowing how to treat a transmission. The 8650 transmission was just barely strong enough to hold the stock torque of the gutless 619. I know that the Kinze conversion 86s transmissions didnt usually last very long. Its essential to keep the torque band in the higher rpm for these transmissions to last. I dont careful anyone is...they wont stand up at all behind either of those engines. The 8850 was another story. The drivetrain on those were great. 8650 not so much
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top