8430 and 8630

plowhand

Member
Im looking to buy some big cheap hp which 1 of
these 2 is better than the other?..what should I
watch out for when buying one..thanks
 
50 series engine replacement with the upgrades they brought is nice. Individual history with service records is of the utmost importance. We have an 8430 and have had to do a little work on it here and there since we bought it back in 1979 but it has been a very good tractor overall. I do think that the 8630 makes its power more easily so it does not run like it is maxed out depending on the job. If looking at either one make sure the hinge area has not been neglected in terms of grease. Not that I have had to replace one but the prop shafts can be pricey to replace. They don't like extensive road work such as a tanker spreader so check the gear oil in the front axle assembly for consistency and quantity to know that has not been neglected. If original series engine it is good to know if and when an overhaul was performed. The cam driven oil pump stresses the engine camshaft and can lead to engine failure. Others here will be along with their opinions and recommendations.
 
The 8430 had a little 466 CID engine and the 8630 had a 619 CID engine.

The 'lil guy did pretty good on HP once revved high enough for help from the turbo, but there's no comparison in torque.

If you've ever tried to get a loaded airseeder moving in "D" range you will have a better understanding of my comments!
 
I bought an 8630 New and spent a lot of seat time in it,,I also took care of 30 of them in my area,,i would not buy one again,or an 8430..skip up to a 8640 or 50...the little engine in the 84's will just eratate you..
 
He wants a tractor not a kenworth with bigger tires and about the same hydraulic capacity as the kenworths power steering pump .
 
I expected a more informed comment before clicking on your post. We have farmed with Massey, JD, Steiger, and I even have a Big Bud. A Versatile is a damn fine tractor and there is a reason why they were so popular. I don't get what the Kenworth comment means unless you are implying because Versatile was made of truck parts its no good. Guess what, that is what makes them cheap to own and operate. Plowhand asked for big cheap horsepower. The torque from the 619 is laughable compared to a 855 and I'm not even fan of those engines. Making the engine part of the frame was a engineering blunder. John Kinze had to show JD how to properly install an engine into a 4 wheel drive tractor. Do you realize JD eventually ended up copying Versatile and Steiger with the modular design in the 60 series. The JD 30/40/50 series are 5 times more expensive to work on compared to a Versatile or even some Steigers. The hydraulic issue can be solved with a $2,000 Atom jet kit. That is if you need one. Here is a picture of a quote I got out of Red 4WD tractor Book. Even JD knew their tractors lagged behind the competition. And don't forget JD did try to buy Versatile.
<image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto12506.jpg"/>
 
We had a new 8630 and thought we had something until update after update so got an 8640 with all updates and Finally bought an IH Steiger 9280 that was a big improvement and had 0 problems.I recently was going to move up to a 9560T and after all the documented problems went with a lower houred CAT 865C pre emission with upgraded reactionary arms.Im optimistic local dealer not thrilled.The older green Steigers and Red IH Steiger would be a much better older tractor if taken care of for the money.
 
And they're stil a pos no matter what your book says . the hydraulics on even the new steigers are junk even with the high output system you have to down shift and throttle up to get an air drill out of the ground on a turn . pulling a 12 bottom plow just as well leave it in the ground on the turn because it takes 400 feet to get it out and back in the ground .
 
Is that why steiger and versatile still use ten speed truck transmissions and outboard planetary axles with clamp on duals or did they copy John Deere and start using inboard plantaries and powershift transmissions made for a tractor?
 
Sure. A 40 series is improved over the 30 series with the late 40 series (engine) an improvement over the early 40 series and the 50 series is an improvement over the previous 2. In the end that shows up in the used price and if a guy is having a hard time coming up with 10,000 then he would be stuck buying an iffy 8X40 series never mind 50 series. A well maintained 30 series with updates should do what a guy in that position wants to do unless he wants it to be the backbone of a 10,000 acre operation. Green Steigers and red Steigers have their place but a lot were sold minus three point hitch and PTO which limits their use. Back in the day I knew of mechanics who made a living wrenching on Steigers just as well as the ones who the older JD articulates had come into the dealer shop providing job security.
 
That is not just a JD problem but a big manufacturer problem. Sometimes limited management chain with a common goal leads to good products. The engineers at Deere, IH, etc. no doubt had accountants micromanage the engineers' activities. This is why early articulates from the big boys often were takeoffs from 2WD units. Squeeze more (components) units out of a production run adding to profit. The little manufacturers could often work with a clean slate. But even they had their disadvantages. The early Steigers' power train did not lend it self to mechanically driven PTO offering a large HP transfer.
 
JDs first 4WD 8010 had some issues that JD addressed in the 8020 update.Those tractors command good prices as they only made about 100.JD teamed with Walker which was a tractor built similar to Steiger and Versatile with truck and military components and there were around 60 made but sales didn't go over too good and they don't even have much collector value.The 7020/7520/8630/8640 probably lost JD more money than any other tractor produced as there were many updates and problems.Jon Kinzebau made a business out of making them work.Im not sure what SVCummings is stating as the 8630 although streamlined and pretty was an engineering nightmare to work on compared to the truck technology with tilt hoods and simple design that Steiger and Versatile employed.One thing JD has always had excellent hydraulics. I was trying to think if there is a single 8630/40 still in use in our area and I can think of a few Green Steigers and several Red ones but not any Versatiles.JD has come a long ways but still need to rely on less computers and electronics and the nothing we can do about emissions. Odd JD decided to go with 18L Cummins in 9570 and the bigger quad types.Maybe they are getting 9560 problems fixed but they have a problem .My first CIH 9280 is still running with over 15K hours and has never been touched and they still have value.
 
Good friend of mine did most of the engineering work on Deere's big articulated tractors making them capable of doing scraper work. First change was increasing hyd psi and increasing hyd flow about four times as much. Those tractors did have torque limiting in the lower gears. The guys got good enough they could replace twisted driveshafts and exploded u-joints in 2-3 hours.

I ran an 8440 for my Landlord back around 1989/'90 chisel plowing in the fall. He had "2-shank-itus", meaning his Glenco Soilsaver was at least 2 shanks too big. I ran A range 2nd & 3rd gear pulling it. Second year he had engine turned up 30-40 hp and borrowed an M&W Earth-Master that pulled easier, could run B-range. Turning on headlands, if the engine wasn't running over 1500 AND accelerating it would lug down and stall. It was trying, couple times I had it doing an 8-wheel spin-out, the dual 23.1x30's all spinning out on a clay hill. About a year before I worked for him he had that 8440 making around 250 hp and it did not like it. That was an expensive rebuild.

My suggestion to OP, look at a Stieger or Versatile, Not sure where SVCummins comments on Stieger is coming from, dozens of guys on another forum I frequent can't say enough good about them.
 
20 speed transmissions were standard on Steiger ST series starting in 1976. Steiger offered also offered a 10 speed Allison Auto in the late 70s which is a very underrated transmission. And then they started offering a 12 powershift in the mid 80s before JD ever did. Versatile never used a truck transmission. They used a 12 speed designed in house. Starting in the early 80s Versatile offered a 12 speed Twin Disc powershift transmission. Which by the way is the same transmission that JD offered on the 60 series in the late 80s. So who copied who again??????? Plus Steiger offered inboard planetary axles starting all the way back to 1969/70 when they moved to Fargo.
 
We have a 9570R. I think its a QSX 15 liter. The same engine that Versatile uses. JD still uses their own engines on the smaller ones. I'm thinking JD went with the Cummins just to have a bigger displacement engine in the upper horsepower band. Steiger is only using a 12.9 liter and I have read complaints on the lack of torque compared the old QSX Cummins used in the earlier STXs. We had a couple of 9560s and they were good to us. In fact we've had a JD 4x4 from every series starting with the 40 series. Only one that gave us problems right out the gate was a 9630. There was an 8850 that cost us dearly too but it was a southern tractor and the tach had been switched out. Our dealer had to actually rent a shop building outside of town to tear apart our 8850 because they did not have enough room in the dealer shop.
 
Again, I would point out that the 7020/7520 was the result of trying to build up a 5020 into an articulated tractor which no doubt was the result of manufacturing, marketing, and accounting dictating to engineering versus giving the engineers a clean slate such as it was with the 4010. Steiger and Versatile no doubt had an advantage in that if they wanted a certain component they could pretty much find it through Cat, Cummins, Dana, etc.. and not fight with management for the most part. Anyways, back to the trials of the big boys AC doomed its 7580 by forcing the normally reliable 426 into too large an application. IH made the 2 plus 2 concept work in low HP but the design did not hold up in the 3788 because the HP begged for a more durable engine than the 466. IH had the same problem with the 4386 as the 466 did not hold up in the 4WD application. Then there was the 4586 and 4786 which were very thirsty tractors for the power they made. Usually, those farms that had a 4X86 had a Steiger within a couple years after they tired of the IH.
 
I agree that the 426 Allis, and the 466 IHC, just didn't last, to many rpm's and too long a stroke! The IHC was a little to crude for me, i bought a 8430 JD, and loved it.
 
The IHC 466 wanted a steady load if even heavy. They did not take to 3-400 RPM drawdowns from hitting a hard spot in a field or a slug going through a forage harvester. There were a couple of 4386's around and I knew a fellow who owned one. They just could not keep the 466 going.
 
I?ve ran em the hydraulics are slow when you?re trying to run an air seeder that?s ran off a hydraulic pump for the blower . If they have only ran a Steiger tractor I?m sure they can?t say enough good about em because they don?t know any better
 
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I have ran a versatile and it was a better cab and a better tractor than any Steiger I?ve ever ran . I?ve ran 2 green Steigers one with the two stacks out the hood it had a v8 cat then I ran about 350 horse Steiger with a cat and 2 red stx case Ih they were nice tractors but terrible hydraulics
 
(quoted from post at 19:32:53 03/09/18) Im looking to buy some big cheap hp which 1 of
these 2 is better than the other?..what should I
watch out for when buying one..thanks

I'd second GreenEnvy! I grew up on JDs and have run IHs, but bought an 895 Versatile back when I was farming.

That was a great, great tractor! It had enough torque to pull a 45' disc socked in the ground idling. My Dad is almost 90 and farmed all his life, but was shocked the first time he saw how much power that thing could put to the ground. I liked it, too, because I could do most any repairs myself.

I also pulled a 9x6 sweep with it. I could plow a half section a day with it.

I bought one with a locked up Cummins engine in it at a sale a while back for $4250, just for a project. Those old 855s are pretty cheap to overall (plus, I already had a truck 855 that will fit).

I love my JD row crop tractors, but for 4 wheel cheap HP, I don't think you could go wrong with Versatile.

Howard
 
Howard, you are right about the old Versatiles being pulling "hosses"!

For heavy tillage in wide open spaces, you couldn't beat 'em.

But in more tight quarters, requiring agility and SHIFTING and STEERING while not "at speed" or the hydraulic capacity to lift a heavy implement quickly, they SUCKED.

And when they got some hours on 'em, the crude shift mechanisms got sloppy and would jam in two gears.

There's still a few around here, and I get two or three service calls a year to get 'em out of two gears.

Helps pay the bills, but annoying as *$%%.
 

Yep - you are right about that, Bob.

I agree - that shifter linkage is pretty crude. And it would have been pretty easy to make those more durable. I just kept some of those little plastic collar shims that would wear out and that really helped. And about all we have out here on the High Plains is wide open spaces, so it wasn't too big of deal for us.

A few times, I had to shake the tractor by turning back and forth to take some of the tension off from how it would be parked in loose soil and then crawl under there and tap the lever from below to pop it back out.

You may be right, too - on hydraulic capacity. I never was pulling a big air seeder or anything that needed hydraulic like they do today.

But for as many acres as we covered with that tractor very reliably, and considering some of the odd problems with fancier newer computer-controlled transmissions, etc, I still think it is hard to beat for his original question of "cheap horsepower".


Howard
 
We fought that on our 976 too from time to time. But then again we never ended up with a $15,000 bill for a transmission work either like we did on our 8850.
 

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