splitter hydraulics once more

firhead

Member
I'm getting there but have a lot to learn. Am I to assume that the remote - as pictured - has an outflow port, the one on
the right with the notch, and an inflow port, the one on the left, and that I should connect the outflow port to the "IN"
port on the splitter valve? I do now have the closed center valve installed and plumbed on the splitter, but am having
trouble connecting it to the tractor.
a251888.jpg
 
Either port can be in or out, ends are identical, just swap connections if lever does not go the way you want on the dash.
 

You have not been listening. The front pump will cavitate with high flow loads because the SCV's return the oil to the transmission case.
 
You can hook it up ether way if when you move the lever the log splitter works backward from what you want swap the hoses on the tractor .
 
I have been listening but perhaps not understanding. How does my choice of ports coming out of the remote effect
cavitation in the front pump by way of inducing high flow loads?
 
Once the hoses are connected you need to use a strap or bungee to hold the lever open to get flow to the splitter valve. Splitters run better with a separate hydraulic pump either on the PTO or powered by a small gas engine. You need a separate oil tank to do that. I've heard running it from the tractor hydro pump can be rough on the pump. We did it that way until changing over to a PTO driven pump. External pumps have more flow and pushing power.

Larry
 
Larry
You've got it. I have found that bungeeing the lever open does the trick, and I also found I've got to keep my rpm up a little. Instinct tells me that using 70 horse to split a log is not the ideal; I hear that engine grunt a little and I'm thinking - wait, like you say, my neighbor's doing this with a Briggs and Stratton. Am I just moving an excessive amount of fluid through the system for the scope of the job? I mean the pressure we're dealing with here is the same, right - in the neighborhood of 2500 psi. Is there an electrical analogy to all this? Thanks.

Cliff
 
Larry
You've got it. I have found that bungeeing the lever open does the trick, and I also found I've got to keep my rpm up a little. Instinct tells me that using 70 horse to split a log is not the ideal; I hear that engine grunt a little and I'm thinking - wait, like you say, my neighbor's doing this with a Briggs and Stratton. Am I just moving an excessive amount of fluid through the system for the scope of the job? I mean the pressure we're dealing with here is the same, right - in the neighborhood of 2500 psi. Is there an electrical analogy to all this? Thanks.

Cliff
 
Hey buickanddeere -take it easy. I've have NOT read the last 15 years of ytmag. I'm sure you are infinitely more
knowledgeable about this stuff than I am. Haven't been around it and am just coming to this forum to learn. In fact, still
trying to manage my posts properly.
 
What Buick is trying to say to you is the trans pump will not keep up with front pump..If I remember right you have two lines that had a loader hooked to them, put a closed center valve on splitter and hoop up high pressure to in and fliter cover to out...Tractor must be not running to hook up and unhook..I split with a 2840 that I hooked up to use a home made splitter on..works good...you can run off remotes but you will get intermittent movement..
 
(quoted from post at 08:09:02 12/30/17) What Buick is trying to say to you is the trans pump will not keep up with front pump.

I think whether trans pump can maintain enough flow while splitting with splitter plugged into scv breakaway coupler would depend on size of cylinder on splitter & speed desired of splitter operation.

Yes returning splitter valve oil to ported filter cover or rockshaft return line would be the best way.
 
What will make this work really well, with no oil heating or pump cavitating is a selective control valve return oil kit, part #AR71945. If you need more help e-mail me.
 
Yes I saw that.....some of this stuff has got mixed up when putting it on line.....there is nothing electrical about it, just plumbing. If its no longer available a regular hyd hose with proper fittings will route the return oil to the filter base, directly into the charge circuit for the front pump.
 

IMHO if this photo which firhead posted earlier of is of firhead's tractor all he needs to do is attach pressure(in) hose of log splitter valve to "male tip" in photo & return(out) hose of splitter valve to "female breakaway coupler" then start engine & split wood IE nothing more to buy

mvphoto8352.png
 
Thanks for the pic. Yes that will do the job perfectly! I did the same thing to my BIL's tractor after is cousin
announced that "John Deere hydraulics are no good"
 
(quoted from post at 09:21:17 12/30/17)
(quoted from post at 08:09:02 12/30/17) What Buick is trying to say to you is the trans pump will not keep up with front pump.

I think whether trans pump can maintain enough flow while splitting with splitter plugged into scv breakaway coupler would depend on size of cylinder on splitter & speed desired of splitter operation.

Yes returning splitter valve oil to ported filter cover or rockshaft return line would be the best way.

Tried it. Cavities the pump and makes the hoses jump on both the 2355 and the 1640.
 
OK - this is interesting. I'm up and splitting out of one of the remotes - if I keep my rpm up around 1500, nothing
shudders, cylinder cycles, nothing seems weird. But you advise to make things more efficient and/or less strain on the
system, I hook up splitter valve in/outs as you advised, into the old loader ports down by the filter cover. What am I
bypassing (or adding) to the circuit to make this work better? I see references to a 'front pump'. This implies some other
pump. Just need some more basics to get this in my head. Is there online schematics of this stuff available that anyone
could suggest? Thanks one and all for your ongoing help.
a252107.jpg
 

IMHO Simple answer is if splitter operates to your satisfaction with no shudder or delay then I'll suggest to leave it attached to breakaway coupler the way it is.

With factory scv without return oil attached to ported filter cover as shown by photo Bob posted return oil normally gets back to hyd reservoir by being dumped in the side of rockshaft(3 pt) housing. By routing return hyd oil to hyd ported filter cover oil gets sent to frt pump at a higher rate than if simply dumped back to reservoir. Trans pump oils trans,operates hyd pto & hyd hi-lo then supplies excess oil to frt hyd pump. Frt hyd pump can't suck oil but must have oil supplied to it.
 
Make sure the splitter hose ends are good. They will go bad too. That system will work a 3 1/2 " cyl's. with no problem If you have the BIG hyd pump and some rpms . I once put a 4.0 cu.in hyd pump on an J.D.300 loader tractor because while loading lime the pump couldn't keep up with the speed the cyl's . when dumping . Run engine abt.300 rpm will help if you are pushing a huge ram.
 
I do have 31/2 cylinder and if I don't keep rpm up, yeah, I get shudder in the hoses and a somewhat jumpy cylinder cycle. Get my rpm's up around 1500, everything smooths out. I guess what is un-intuitive to people not familiar with all this is thinking Whoa, I have 70 hp here - it should do the job at a slow idle no matter how it's plumbed. But I have more homework to do to get the dynamics of this circuitry down.
 
TX Jim thanks for laying this out for me. Good explanation. I guess I'll operate as is for a bit until I get longer hose
to implement your suggestion.
I'm sure everybody's trying to tell me the same thing in a way, and I appreciate it.
 
I'm not sure what your tractor is rated for flow, but smaller hydro pumps on modern wood splitters are made for the changing loads during splitting using little fuel with a small gas engine.

I changed my splitter from tractor hydraulics to gas engine with a pump from Northern Tools. I also got a tank and new valve so it will return on its own while I grab another piece. I use a 8.5 hp Briggs from my wood chipper that sits most of the year. It took some welding to mount everything but I'm very happy with how it works. It works too good as I broke the wedge off the I-beam this year. The weld held for 40 years.
Larry
 
(quoted from post at 16:17:20 12/30/17) What will make this work really well, with no oil heating or pump cavitating is a selective control valve return oil kit, part #AR71945. If you need more help e-mail me.

Can you put a power beyond on his unit?
 

Give me patience . We have been talking about a Power Beyond from the very start of the conversation .
A power beyond is connecting to full time full flow hydraulic pressure with only the valve on the loader/backhoe/logsplitter/air planter controlling the oil flow . The return oil instead of being dumped back into the sump. The return oil is routed to a point between the transmission pump discharge and the transmission filter inlet . Just like in the images of the tractor you showed us .
Now tell us the truth. Are you just jerking is around the topic for some entertainment ? Or are you seriously not grasping this ?
 
He probably doesn?t get it you telling him the
hydraulics will explode on his tractor but then other
people that have split wood for years have got
along fine I?d say it would be pretty tough to know
what to do . I think I?d sell the tractor the logs the
splitter the fireplace and the house before I went
through this
 

Won’t explode but they operate faster, smoother at a lower temperature due to more oil moving through the cooler .
Some people used only SCV because they didn’t know any better . Some thought that noise and shaking hoses was normal . Or they just don’t care as long as the ram moves .
 
(quoted from post at 21:33:42 01/01/18)

Can you put a power beyond on his unit?

This photo that firhead posted of the hyd fittings on his tractor is about as close to "power beyond" as I've ever seen installed on a JD utility tractor of this era IE his tractor already has PBY installed on it.

mvphoto8533.png
 
OK I had it backwards. I was thinking you were picturing the return not the supply. Sorry for that. Also I would absolutely hook up a splitter in this manner. Never seen anything good come of tying a remote open in the long term though I'm sure it would split wood as is.
 
Buick...I apologize for getting you so worked up. You guys keep working with me, I'm sure I will eventually grasp it but
this is all new territory for me. I am not "jerking is" around for entertainment. I'll take this opportunity to thank Tx
Jim, Cannonball and others who seem to gauge the degree of my ignorance and DO have the patience to help me out.
 
Does anyone have a hydraulic schematic, for the tractor in question, that they could post for this gentleman?

We wouldn't expect a tech, let alone a novice with a limited understanding of hydraulic fundamentals, to diagnose or make changes to a hyd. system without a "road map"......

& before anyone chimes in with the 1 800 number for ordering manuals just ask yourself, am I not willing to share just that little bit of info. to help someone out?

As Tech 7 pointed out in his thread pertaining to this issue, not everyone here has the same knowledge base or skill set so please have some patience with those who have less experience.
 

Power beyond hydraulics and ported oil filter returns have been a regular topic every week or two for the past 15 plus years . Any semi regular reader here should be up to speed on the topic .
 
Yes, I agree 100% & I only frequent the forums sporadically.

The subject of plumbing front end loader control valves is likely to be found within the first 5 pages at any given time

That said, I don't recall ever seeing a hydraulic schematic posted as a reference.

Regardless, do you think it's reasonable to expect a person who is untrained in hydraulic system fundamentals, much less the intricacies of a specific model of equipment, to pick up the necessary information from reading a bunch posts referring to one small portion of the entire system?


Anyway, you have been contributing on the YT forums for as long as I have been a member & from what I can gather you are very familiar with Deere's many models. This would lead me to the assumption that you either have access to the required technical literature(schematic) or at the very least would know someone who does.

So how about posting a schematic for all to see? I think the O.P. could then wrap his head around all of this with little further explanation......



(quoted from post at 10:59:17 01/03/18)
Power beyond hydraulics and ported oil filter returns have been a regular topic every week or two for the past 15 plus years . Any semi regular reader here should be up to speed on the topic .
 

Glen D Anderson
firhead doesn't need a complicated oil schematic for his tractor. All he needs to do is attach pressure(in) hose of ""closed center log splitter valve"" to male hyd fitting(blue arrow)then attach return hose(out) to female breakaway coupler(red arrow) of photo I posted then he has splitter valve attached as best can be accomplished.
Jim
 
Jim,

I respect the fact that you & others know their business regarding these machines. The picture does an excellent job of showing where to make the connections but it does not explain the "why" which the O.P. seems interested in learning.

IMO, had a schematic been provided at the beginning along with your edited picture, the O.P. would have had his head wrapped around the principle with a handful of additional posts to give clarification.

None of my comments are meant to detract from the valuble information you & others on this forum provide, it's just a suggestion that may help in certain cases.
 
I have some longer hoses being made to reach down under to make the connection as per Tx Jim's instructions. You're all in
agreement on this I assume, and again, I appreciate the common wisdom of you all. Somebody said this post was getting
"tired" - and he's right. Thanks for putting in time on this. When I report back on my successful hookup, it will be on a
NEW post - a short one.
In the meantime, yeah, I would like to find some schematics on this if anybody has suggestions. I am curious about how
the innards work for sure after all this.
Thanks again.
 
(quoted from post at 12:20:12 01/02/18) Buick...I apologize for getting you so worked up. You guys keep working with me, I'm sure I will eventually grasp it but
this is all new territory for me. I am not "jerking is" around for entertainment. I'll take this opportunity to thank Tx
Jim, Cannonball and others who seem to gauge the degree of my ignorance and DO have the patience to help me out.

Don't take it too personally, I sometimes get overly grumpy than what the situation warrants.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top