John T. : EE Question

Sir,
Have I read that replacing the original lights (on my "New Generation" 4430 tractor) with LED lights is not as easy as "take the old light out, and plug in the new light".
If true, can you explain to an academically challenged (non EE) person - why?
Is it something about in line resistance, amperage, or voltage? and if so, then why don't the LED light makers put the "fix" together with the LED light (ie: a one piece module)?
Or am I completely off base? (wouldn't surprise me)
Thanks for sharing your knowledge,
Old John
 
Thankfully his tractor was built after 1969 by which time Deere realized how bad the 24 volt system was(or how much simpler 12 volt was) and changed over to 12 volt. Tom
 
I wonder what for replies you will get on this. I have changed out several of my 3020's and 4020's to Led bulbs and did nothing different than switching the bulbs out. They have a ground wire that I strip the coating off and wrap around the stud on the rear of the light housing for a ground. Maybe I am doing it wrong as well and will learn something new. Tom
 
I have a 4030. I replaced the fender lights and rear cab lights and mounted two additional lights on the frame of the front loader, all led, and they work great. No modification required. If replacing flasher or turn signal bulbs I have read that you may have to add some resistance to allow the flasher to work.
 
Old John, I've been here since around 1990 and don't recall you ??? so if you're new WELCOME ABOARD

Sorry, I don't have a schematic for your 4430 nor a particular LED replacement light fixture/bulb specs, so can only provide some very general information. TxJim or Bob often posts new generation (I'm more into two cylinder) pictures and diagrams and is a great resource of help and knowledge on here, especially when it comes to New Generation...

In general an LED is more efficient, uses less energy, is of HIGHER RESISTANCE and therefore (for a given voltage) DRAWS LESS CURRENT then its incandescent counterpart to yield the equivalent or even more Lumens. They provide more or equivalent Lumens then an Incandescent counterpart while consuming far less energy and producing less wasted heat. My RV already and new home will be all LED where possible and feasible...

Soooooooo if you replaced an incandescent HEADLIGHT bulb or fixture with a matched LED DESIGNED FOR TRUCK AND TRACTOR USE of the correct voltage AND IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF there is no electronics or circuitry that requires the higher current the Incandescent bulb would draw I'M UNAWARE OF A PROBLEM USING A CORRECT REPLACEMENT "HEADLIGHT" LED PROVIDED AGAIN its the correct voltage and there's no circuit that may require a certain current draw to function and the system is electrically balanced.

NOTE in the old days when current dependent bi metal FLASHERS were used to flash turn signals if an LED is used there may not be enough current flow to operate the intermittent flashers HOWEVER an electronic flasher can still work fine THEREFORE there could be a problem using an LED in like turn signals or low light level similar applications IFFFFFFFF the flasher unit requires higher current to operate correctly.

NOTE some LED's have built in electronic voltage regulation circuitry while others may not. If the bulb or fixture is for Truck, Tractor and Automotive use and designed and labeled for the correct nominal DC battery voltage, it can operate if while cranking battery voltage is reduced or under high charge when battery voltage rises.

FINAL THOUGHTS If I was going to replace an incandescent light with an LED, especially headlights, in order to achieve proper load balance and current division I SUGGEST YOU REPLACE ALL OF THEM NOTTTTTTTTT JUST A SINGLE UNIT...or there could be some problems????

John T Retired Electrical Engineer and with no specs or diagrams NO WARRANTY ON ANY OF THIS
 
(quoted from post at 08:08:33 11/07/17) I have a 4030. If replacing flasher or turn signal bulbs I have read that you may have to add some resistance to allow the flasher to work.

I haven't replaced any LED lights but my understanding the same as 8nidaho in that only flashing lights require some added resistance.
 
Probably correct Jim UNLESS if some sort of electronic time based NOT current dependent flash control units were used which have been for several years now, but I cant say what his tractor has or if its still original or not???

John T Currently happily in your State, now in the Austin area yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
 
Tx Jim, in spite of your vast mechanical knowledge, you seem electrically challenged. You state that only flashing lights "require some added electrical resistance." In fact with bi-metal flashers the opposite is true. The current flow dependent type of flasher would require LESS resistance not MORE. I can now understand why you are so baffled by the 24 Volt System.
 
Dr. Charles, Did you go to the same Electrical Engineering School as John T? I hope you paid more attention to the section on Series-Parallel Circuitry than he did!
 
(quoted from post at 11:10:01 11/07/17) Tx Jim, in spite of your vast mechanical knowledge, you seem electrically challenged. You state that only flashing lights "require some added electrical resistance." In fact with bi-metal flashers the opposite is true. The current flow dependent type of flasher would require LESS resistance not MORE. I can now understand why you are so baffled by the 24 Volt System.

I found this article online.
Clark

Why are installing load resistors necessary for LED turn signal lights? If you don't install load resistors (also known as equalizers) with LED turn signal bulbs, you will experience the notorious hyper flash issue. Hyper flash is exactly what it sounds like, where the turn signal light flashes rapidly and is almost headache inducing. Not only is this ugly, but you may also attract the police who think your bulb is burned out. This sounds completely unnecessary and a huge hassle to boot.

You will need 50W 6 OHM load resistors and tap the load resistor to the stock harness in parallel. Load resistors also have no negative or positive, making it easier for you because you wouldn't have to worry about which wires goes to which side.
 
Indeed just as I warned, in the event the flash turn signal controllers ARE CURRENT/HEAT DEPENDENT AND CONTROLLED like the old style bi metal heated units, LED turn bulbs may be problematic

Fun chattin with you, best wishes and God Bless

John T
 
I got it, excellent question and I will provide you with a meaningful response when I have a bit more time. Its good to see a young man interested in an engineering career and I will help all I can.

John T Retired Electrical Engineer, BSEE Purdue University, JD IU School of Law...BOTH fine schools
 
(quoted from post at 13:45:43 11/07/17) I got it, excellent question and I will provide you with a meaningful response when I have a bit more time. Its good to see a young man interested in an engineering career and I will help all I can.

John T Retired Electrical Engineer, BSEE Purdue University, JD IU School of Law...BOTH fine schools

Thanks John! And no rush!
 
(quoted from post at 12:10:01 11/07/17) Tx Jim, in spite of your vast mechanical knowledge, you seem electrically challenged. You state that only flashing lights "require some added electrical resistance." In fact with bi-metal flashers the opposite is true. The current flow dependent type of flasher would require LESS resistance not MORE. I can now understand why you are so baffled by the 24 Volt System.

I think you needed to concentrate more of your 53 yrs of studying 24 volt systems to READING COMPREHENSION as I stated I had no 1st hand experience with replacing conventional lights with LED's. My statement about resistance was something I had read. :lol: :lol:

I've never professed to be an ""electrical engineer"" such as you but got my JD 24 volt electrical knowledge the OLD FASHIONED way ""hands on in a JD dealers repair shop"". At least I'm knowledgeable to to know JD 24 volt isn't suppose to be grounded at the starter. Your calling me baffled about the JD 24 volt system is very similar to THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!!

I hope you have a nice day,Jim
 
Thanks to all, for the reply's.
JohnT: I've been a lurker for years, but rarely post. Thanks for the welcome & the advice.
I'm retired now, so maybe I'll get out more, and see you at a show.
TxJim: sorry for the invective aimed at you by another. I appreciate you knowledge too.
Nearly everyone on here knows more about tractors than me. If I can avoid repeating others mistakes, I figure I'm ahead.
John
 

Old John in Ohio
Thanks but no need to worry about the ole history teacher hurting my feelings as I'm fairly thick skinned/hard headed. IMHO he's just trying to cover up his inaccurate statements about a 24 volt ground location. :lol:
Jim
 
Good interesting discussion.
If we want to be accurate, for the flashers, like TXJim said, we need to add a resistance in parrallel:
When we add a resistance in parrallel to the load (here the light), we are actually decreasing the resistance of the circuit, so increasing the total current drawn. In that case, there are no energy savings to go to led lights because the bulb was the resistor before the conversion.

Pretty well explained here:

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/resistor/res_4.html

Lastly, Assuming the tractor is not a Deere 24V system that Bubba removed the middle ground wire, it is not umportant to convert all the lights except for estetics. It just does not matter one bit in the circuit, same way than the dash light is small amps and the others ones are bigger amps.
 
fdt860, Tx Jim did not say that. He erroneously said we needed to "add resistance." We need to add resistors(in Parallel) to LESSEN resistance in the circuit to increase current flow and make a bi-metal flasher operate properly. Tx Jim is a mechanical wizard but baffled by series-parallel circuits.
 
(quoted from post at 16:27:11 11/08/17) fdt860, Tx Jim did not say that. He erroneously said we needed to "add resistance." We need to add resistors(in Parallel) to LESSEN resistance in the circuit to increase current flow and make a bi-metal flasher operate properly. Tx Jim is a mechanical wizard but baffled by series-parallel circuits.

Texas Jim said to make the flasher work correctly you would have to add some resistance. He did not say whether it was to be added in series or parallel. The fact is a resistor is used to make it work properly. Most of the forum users are trying to enjoy the knowledge and camaraderie found here. STOP bashing him.
Thank you.
 
(quoted from post at 18:27:11 11/08/17) fdt860, Tx Jim did not say that. He erroneously said we needed to "add resistance." We need to add resistors(in Parallel) to LESSEN resistance in the circuit to increase current flow and make a bi-metal flasher operate properly. Tx Jim is a mechanical wizard but baffled by series-parallel circuits.

I hate being like this, but just leave dude. Nobody here cares to hear what you have to say. There's a difference between constructive criticism and just being a jerk (to put it nicely). There's absolutely no reason for you to be saying the things you are.
 
Dumb question:
Would a different type of flasher relay eliminate the need to add a resistor when using LED lights? Would one like this work well?

www.amazon.com/CEC-Industries-EF32RL-Electronic-Compatible/dp/B00JXLH7CG/ref=pd_sbs_263_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BK644Y9MF8ST7G3R0RH5
 

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