JD B New Owner - How Do you Get Spark From this Magneto??

RTR

Well-known Member
Hey fellas. I've been around here a while but never on the green board. Don't hate me but I'm a IH Farmall guy (have over 100 of them). We just got our first JD 2 cyl to fix up and to ride in parades and trying to get it to start up. I can't figure out for the life of me how to set the points on this magneto. It doesn't seem to be getting spark and the points were corroded and i sanded them some.

I will be asking more questions along the way too. All I know is that it is a JD and is the later take (stamped frame). That is about all I know.....oh it is green' haha

Please help!!!
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Looks like a pretty nice late B. Those Wico mags all about the same. Set the points to .015 just like you would on a distributor. Does the impulse coupling make a good "clank" when you crank it? It may have a broken spring or the dogs are stuck or missing. Not hard to figure out.
 
(quoted from post at 04:39:00 11/05/17) Looks like a pretty nice late B. Those Wico mags all about the same. Set the points to .015 just like you would on a distributor. Does the impulse coupling make a good "clank" when you crank it? It may have a broken spring or the dogs are stuck or missing. Not hard to figure out.

I think I figured it out. I filed the points some more and then it started firing. They were just heavily corroded. Probably wouldn't hurt to replace them and the condenser. Put some gas and tried to start her. Starter works fine but makes a dry squeaking noise. Should I worry about it or just keep trying?

Where do you check the oil in these engines?? I would hate for it to lock up because it didn't have any Oil in it.

Also, I filled with gas, pulled the choke (i think was) and tried starting it with a little bit of ether. It eventually gave a very loud backfire! I then thought maybe the plug wires were crossed, so I switched them at the magneto. After that, I tried to start it up for a while but never got a significant hit again. I probably flooded the carburetor and/or plugs.

Sorry, I'm pretty ignorant on this sideways engine green stuff. Haha
 
"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]<font color="#6699ff">I can't figure out for the life of me how to set the points on this magneto.[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]</font>"

Take a look at the [b:654c4848f0]AA3870R WICO MAGNETO (TYPE "X")[/b:654c4848f0] illustration below.

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Take a look at the photo below of the WICO X magneto.

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Take a look at the information from the [b:654c4848f0]Service Manual Electrical Systems SM-2029[/b:654c4848f0] in the [b:654c4848f0]Magneto Ignition Systems[/b:654c4848f0] section [i:654c4848f0][b:654c4848f0]Servicing Wico Type ?X? Magnetos[/b:654c4848f0][/i:654c4848f0] group under the [b:654c4848f0]ADJUSTING POINTS[/b:654c4848f0] paragraph on page 70-15-7.

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Hope this helps.
 
The oil check plug should be on the right side, down below the belt pulley. Screw it out a ways--if no oil comes out, add some till it does.
 
There is a petcock below the belt pulley to check oil.

I think you will find that the engine is pretty simple, and that the fundamentals are all the same as a red one.

I suggest spending a few $ on a manual. It will help.
 
"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]<font color="#6699ff">Where do you check the oil in these engines??[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]</font>"

Take a look at the illustration below.

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Take a look at the oil level test cock on "John B" our 43 Model B.

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Hope this helps.
 
RTR,You had the plug wires correct in your picture,lower outlet on cap to right cylinder.You might remove the plugs and squirt in a couple teaspoons of motor oil to seal up dried rings and valves to help build up compression.Then try starting up again.Good luck!
 
while it is not necessarily rare...I noted you have one of the late model B's that's all fuel. This is something to be noted....
 
(quoted from post at 08:20:07 11/05/17) RTR,You had the plug wires correct in your picture,lower outlet on cap to right cylinder.You might remove the plugs and squirt in a couple teaspoons of motor oil to seal up dried rings and valves to help build up compression.Then try starting up again.Good luck!

I did squirt a little motor oil/atf mixture in the cylinders. I will switch the wires back then. Thank you guys for the info. I'll use that and readjust the points. I am planning on getting a book for it. Probably would be a good idea to get change the oil and filter in it. Would you happen to know the part Number for the Filter? I'm guessing regular 10w-30 oil.
 
The oil filter is p/n AR26350. You'll also need the gasket for the filter which is p/n A519R.
NAPA filter 1242 also includes the gasket and is a little cheaper than the Deere filter and gasket.

10W-30 oil is good for year-around use in areas with cold winters. Otherwise straight 30 weight is
good and what the operators manual calls for.
 
(quoted from post at 13:08:57 11/05/17) The oil filter is p/n AR26350. You'll also need the gasket for the filter which is p/n A519R.
NAPA filter 1242 also includes the gasket and is a little cheaper than the Deere filter and gasket.

10W-30 oil is good for year-around use in areas with cold winters. Otherwise straight 30 weight is
good and what the operators manual calls for.

Sorry to invade this post but just wanted to check, will that oil filter work on a 1951 b? Thanks
 
(quoted from post at 06:47:10 11/06/17) Mike,
That filter, AR26350, is used on a lot of JD tractors including New and Next Generations like 4020s and 4230s.

How can I identify my tractor? The serial number tag is rusted very badly and after i wire brushed it you can see in the picture it is still hard to read.

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just curious if anyone knew how to read this tag or date the tractor otherwise.
 
Well from what I can see, it has the square axle housing so that puts it after late '49. It has the one piece shifting quadrant so that puts it before mid '50. Interesting I don't see any holes drilled and tapped on top of the axle housing for mounting a loader or something.
 
Also, I don't see a long ventilator pipe coming from the ventilator pump, so that puts it before 258519. My guess is late '49 or early '50.
 
(quoted from post at 08:22:44 11/08/17) Well from what I can see, it has the square axle housing so that puts it after late '49. It has the one piece shifting quadrant so that puts it before mid '50. Interesting I don't see any holes drilled and tapped on top of the axle housing for mounting a loader or something.

It has 2 holes drilled and tapped on top of the square axle housing
 
Wanted to post a little update on this project. We got the carburetor professionally rebuilt, tested, and adjusted.....installed it on the tractor. I filed the points and Got the mag putting out a spark. Press the starter button and she will not run!

I'm thinking it is the timing now, so I googled how to check the timing on these tractors. I pulled the center cap on the flywheel and checked to see when the mag impulse clicked relative to the timing mark at 6 o'clock. It was about 3 inches (around 8 o'clock) away so I rotated mag. Checked it again and didn't seem to change, so I rotated it the other way. Didn't seem to change the position of the click. I then set the magneto back to around the center position (straight up and down) and left it. I will say there was not any spring resistance when rotating it to time it. Not sure if there should have been any.

I checked the points and they are set correctly. I then pulled the spark plug by the flywheel and layer it on the frame with the plug wire attached. No spark seen whatsoever.

Also, I lined up the timing marks on the flywheel and cover at 6 o'clock position and removed magneto to check the orientation of the drive slot. I think it should be horizontal and this one was almost 45 degrees.

Not knowing anything about a Deere this is tough. What can the problem be??
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Looks like the governor housing was installed out of time. There's timing marks on the both the governor gear and camshaft gear that have to line up. I'm sure someone here with more experience will help you out with that
 
(quoted from post at 22:34:42 12/13/17) Looks like the governor housing was installed out of time. There's timing marks on the both the governor gear and camshaft gear that have to line up. I'm sure someone here with more experience will help you out with that

Maybe I was looking at wrong timing mark. I found one at 3 o'clock on the outside cover to the right. I didn't use that one last night. Another question.....is the "dot" that the yellow Rrow is pointing to, the timing mark on the flywheel? I know the barn is different on non-electric start models but didn't know about mine. I just need to know if I am headed in the right direction.

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Yes, that dot on the flywheel is the timing mark. The timing mark on the cover should be in the 6 o'clock position, so I think you were right the first time. It's that little slit right on the edge of the cover opening, I see it in the bottom left picture.
 
(quoted from post at 11:16:52 12/14/17) Yes, that dot on the flywheel is the timing mark. The timing mark on the cover should be in the 6 o'clock position, so I think you were right the first time. It's that little slit right on the edge of the cover opening, I see it in the bottom left picture.

Ok. That is what I used the first time, but I saw on a YouTube video where the timing mark is the one on the other cover at the 3 o'clock position. Granted, that tractor was a hand start and did not have the cover over the flywheel.

I need someone that knows these models well to clarify this and try to help me answer my other questions. A download of the service manual would be awesome if anyone knows where I could find it.
 
"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]<font color="#6699ff">A download of the service manual would be awesome[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]</font>"

Scanned the information from the [b:654c4848f0]SM2004 SERVICE MANUAL FOR JOHN DEERE DEALERS MODEL "B" TRACTOR[/b:654c4848f0] in the [b:654c4848f0]Section 80 IGNITION SYSTEM Group 5 MAGNETO, SPARK PLUGS, AND HIGH-TENSION CABLES[/b:654c4848f0] under the [b:654c4848f0]Installation and Timing[/b:654c4848f0] topic on pages 80-5-3 though 80-5-5.

This information is in a PDF file.

Email is open if you would like a copy of this PDF file with this information.
 
"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]<font color="#6699ff">I need someone that knows these models[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]</font>"

Timing the magneto on the Model B and Model A is the same procedure.

Take a look at the information below on timing the magneto on "Old John" our 1948 Model A.

Reviewed the [b:654c4848f0]OPERATOR?S MANUAL No. OM-R2001R JOHN DEERE MODEL ?A? SERIES (SERIAL No. 648000 AND UP) TRACTOR[/b:654c4848f0] in the [b:654c4848f0]IGNITION SYSTEM[/b:654c4848f0] section under the [b:654c4848f0]Installing Magneto on Tractor[/b:654c4848f0] topic on pages 34-35.

"[i:654c4848f0]Installing the magneto after it has been removed from the tractor can be done easily as follows: First remove the spark plug on the flywheel side.

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Place your finger over the hole and rotate the flywheel in the running direction until you feel a pressure of air in the cylinder. Continue turning the flywheel slowly until the punch mark stamped on the flywheel hub, lines with the ?V? grove on the flywheel guard.

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In this position the slot in the coupling on the governor shaft will be horizontal.

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Next secure a short piece of wire and insert one end in the upper terminal of the distributor cap on the magneto, bend the other end around within 1/8-inch of some metal part of the magneto.

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Hold the magneto solidly in the same upright position as when mounted on the tractor.

Grip the driving lug on the impulse coupling firmly and turn the impulse slowly in a left-hand direction (counter-clockwise). Stop instantly when impulse trips and spark occurs between end of wire and magneto frame. When impulse trips, driving lugs on the magneto coupling will be in a horizontal position.

Replace magneto and gasket on the governor case, making sure the impulse coupling lugs engage slots on the governor drive coupling.

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A gasket must be used between bolting flanges. After tightening the two cap screws firmly with fingers, rotate the top of the magneto toward front of tractor as far as possible. Then rotate the flywheel one complete turn and line the punch mark on flywheel hub exactly with the ?V? groove on the flywheel guard.

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Now tap the top of the magneto toward the rear of the tractor a little at a time until the impulse trips.

Tighten the cap screw holding magneto to governor case and install spark plug cables. Left hand spark plug cable must be installed in upper distributor cap terminal.

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[b:654c4848f0]Caution: Whenever adjustments are made on the tractor engine, remove the spark plug cables from spark plugs and battery ground cable to prevent accidental starting.[/b:654c4848f0][/i:654c4848f0]"

Hope this helps.
 
(quoted from post at 20:32:02 12/14/17)
Hope this helps.

It does help, but why is my governor not horizontal when the mag is removed?? I will say it is hard to get on compression stroke when using the starter to turn over, and get it to stop where you want it. I'm used to being able to use a hand crank on the old farmalls.
 
(quoted from post at 20:13:02 12/14/17)
Email is open if you would like a copy of this PDF file with this information.

James, I can't seem to figure out the open email thing.didnt see it listed. Here is mine ......
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I'm still betting the governor was installed out of time. I would highly recommend getting the SM2004 service manual, which covers everything for the late model B except the hydraulics and electrical. It shows in good detail how to get the governor installed back in time. I got my manual at Davenport Tractor for $49 plus shipping.
 

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