6030 or 5020 powershift ?

fdt860

Well-known Member
Looking for info on the final drive for the 760, I came accross the 760A, which to my surprise, could come with a Powershift, installed on the huge housing of the 5020 tranny.

Why Deere did not offer this from factory is a surprise, but it seems possible to put a rear end from a 760A on a 6030 and got a 6030PS, one of the coolest tractor on a grain cart.
The 760A clutch housing is not machined at the area where the 6030 frame rails bolt to, but the bosses are there, so it is like JD intended to put it on, and never did.

Do you agree? Have you seen that mod done?

760A PS housings:

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6030 housings

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I have had some of the same thoughts on this, when I came across some reading some years ago on the 760A industrial tractors. Would certainly be an interesting "custom built" project.
 
It shouldn't be a surprised JD did not offer a 5020 or 6030 powershift. Those were expensive tractors to begin with and adding a powershift would cost even more. At one point you could buy a Versatile 850 or 900 for about the same as a 6030 and you get 4 wheel drive and a much nicer cab with the Versatile. Far as the 5020 goes a powershift would make them some what doggy with the naturally aspirated 531. Keep in mind 5010/20s were originally designed for wheatland farming were you stayed in one gear all day long and wheat farmers wanted all the hp they could get. I'm surprised nobody has done a 6030 powershift yet because this knowledge has been out there for awhile. I also think whoever would do it should install a aftermarket front wheel assist kit like a coleman or something. I saw a 5020 for sale that had one. Also I discover something a few years ago that I didn't know JD made. We bought a JD 770A road grader and it has a 531 with a turbo. Just a turbo no intercooler like a 6030 or 7520. What if JD had made that engine in the mid 60s when the turbo crazed was on. I bet sales of the 5020 wouldn't have dropped off so much during the last few years.
 
I dig up more, and the 770 grader also have the 8 speed powershift based on the 5020-5010 rear case, and used on 760A. Quite surpriwing, but parts book is clear about it.

One nice thing about a 6030 based on a 760A rear end, is that you also get the high speed final drives, so probably around 32MPH with 20.8-42 at 2200RPM, or idle along at 20MPH, pulling those sillage wagons down the roads...
 

I agree with you on the extra cost, but for a top of the line product, sometimes it does not matter that you just sell a few. Developpement would have been minimal, because 760 PS was introduced in 1968. Mostly bolt on together work, to make a product nobody has
 
Sounds interesting but I am sure for the same reason the Hinsen cab remained until 1977 on 6030.It cost a lot to redo most anything and usually it doesn't increase the value. The 5020 I have been around were heavy and underpowered but very durable
 
In reading these posts, particularly yours, the 8 speed power shift transmission in the 760A tractor and the 770 road grader are the same transmission. Is this correct? Are there any other machines that used this particular transmission? I did find a brochure on the 760A tractor and if I recall correctly, there were only 3 reverse speeds in the transmission, so Deere must have blocked out the 4th reverse.

I also came across some parts related information citing some parts used in this transmission were also used in the 4630, 4640, and 4840 tractors with power shift. My next question is whether or not the internal components of this transmission are essentially the same as the components of a 4630, 4640, and 4840 tractor with the power shift, but simply housed in a different casting?

Let me take this one step further then. The horsepower generated by the 6531 engine in the 760A and 770 road grader end up being around 150 hp. Is there any thoughts out there as to if one DID in fact make a "custom 6030" with this transmission, will the internal components hold up to horsepower and torque produced by the engine? Will it withstand 225, or 250, or even 275 horsepower, as some owners of 6030's have claimed. I know we have one on our farm putting out around 225 hp.

I know I could not financially pull something like this off immediately or in the short term, but this IS something I would be willing to work on slowly and building a "custom 6030" with a power shift transmission. Having been into this model tractor mechanically, I have some familiarity with what is involved in building up a 6030, with the exception of this particular transmission. As I noted above, these transmissions were used in the 760A tractor and 770 road grader, and if there is any other machine made by Deere which used this transmission, which could be sourced for such a project. How about availability of "donor transmissions" themselves and the availability of parts to do a complete rebuild of such a transmission?

Such a beast of a tractor would certainly make a very interesting show piece!
 
(quoted from post at 14:37:36 07/12/16) In reading these posts, particularly yours, the 8 speed power shift transmission in the 760A tractor and the 770 road grader are the same transmission. Is this correct? Are there any other machines that used this particular transmission? I did find a brochure on the 760A tractor and if I recall correctly, there were only 3 reverse speeds in the transmission, so Deere must have blocked out the 4th reverse.

I also came across some parts related information citing some parts used in this transmission were also used in the 4630, 4640, and 4840 tractors with power shift. My next question is whether or not the internal components of this transmission are essentially the same as the components of a 4630, 4640, and 4840 tractor with the power shift, but simply housed in a different casting?

Let me take this one step further then. The horsepower generated by the 6531 engine in the 760A and 770 road grader end up being around 150 hp. Is there any thoughts out there as to if one DID in fact make a "custom 6030" with this transmission, will the internal components hold up to horsepower and torque produced by the engine? Will it withstand 225, or 250, or even 275 horsepower, as some owners of 6030's have claimed. I know we have one on our farm putting out around 225 hp.

I know I could not financially pull something like this off immediately or in the short term, but this IS something I would be willing to work on slowly and building a "custom 6030" with a power shift transmission. Having been into this model tractor mechanically, I have some familiarity with what is involved in building up a 6030, with the exception of this particular transmission. As I noted above, these transmissions were used in the 760A tractor and 770 road grader, and if there is any other machine made by Deere which used this transmission, which could be sourced for such a project. How about availability of "donor transmissions" themselves and the availability of parts to do a complete rebuild of such a transmission?

Such a beast of a tractor would certainly make a very interesting show piece!

The grader 770 has 8F and 8R, speeds, but the tranny looks the same. Yes, I have seen that few parts are shared with the 4520 PS. I would believe that the 760A being a scraper, the transmission is way overbuilt for the horsepower, because you downshift under ultra heavy load, shifts often under load...
For comparison, the 760 std had the 13.5" double clutch of the 6030, even if they did not have its power.

As far as building one, I would never start from a 6030, unless it is an incomplete junked one. Too rare and pricey to be modified
Rather, you buy a complete good running 760A. That is about 6000 to 10000$. You can probably sell the scaper unit for 1/2 that price if you make a dolly out of the front axle of the 760, or something else... The 760 has the right clutch housing. Even the bosses for the brake valve is there.

You need to have 1/2 front of a 5020 except the motor, + bar axle, fenders, dash, rockshaft, probably the entire hydraulic system, brake valve, side rails, all in one $2000. A 4020 powershift dash and gearshift should bolt right on.

Then come tires, but that is the case with every project.

If you want the big motor, I would rather find a nice way to have rear remotes and side console (maybe out of a junked 4520) and put a hood, exhaust, air filter from a 7520. 5020 valves should be possible to relocate on the back, using the late oil monifold of a 5020 and valves with integrated coupler. (they don't really have to, it is probably possible to put the valves close to the seat, and run custom linkage connected to a side console from a 4520).

I am not a fan of perfectly original stuffs (it is boring, they are all the same) , but rather fan of " what if JD or IH or whoever has done this", as long as if it is done well and not hacked.
 
I looked at my 5020 more, and it would be possible to relocate the valves right in the toolbox area, so modification is unvisible, and then run park release cable or linkages to them. Purpose is to save room for the air filter of the 7520...
 
So, I was able to find a 760A tractor for parts, in rough shape uncomplete, but perfect for what I need. Plus a 5020 for parts with a bad motor and probably tranny that dismantled, but overall complete. It had a 3 point, and I swapped the 3 point housing for a one from a 6030 at the salvage yard. I was also lucky enough to find the side console of that 6030.
Then I got a hood from a 7520, plus side screens (shorter), and hydraulic pump covers from 7520. Those are required to move the radiator further forward from the 5020 position and allow the 531A to fit.
I found a 531A, identical to 6030 motor, on a 5400 chopper that has been sitting out for 8 years, but the motor is still running.
I found a dash from a 4020 powershift with all the controls.
So I think that I got all the parts to handle this project, only things I have missing is a Powershift clutch pedal (but I think that I can find one from a 4020, and it should fit), plus probably some other small items as I go. The rest I will have to fabricate.
Row crop Fender and canopy are going to come from a 5020 that I want to put a Stolper cab on. Then for now I can use the 11-16 tires from the chopper, and I got some 32 inches rims to put on the tractor.

So I think that this project is going to happen. It will be fun to get it done. It seems that I can make it look exactly like a 6030.

One of the most difficult machining operation to do, is to drill the rockshaft housing to accept the tow disconnect lever, that is going straight trough the top cover on 760A tractors. It should not be too difficult: I will make a template using the 760A rockshaft cover, and will duplicate the hole on the 6030 rockshaft.
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I have made this chart to illustrate the strength of the 760A tranny. Being a scraper, I knew it was stronger than regular 141HP tractors. The numbers of disks suggest that the 760A tranny should be at least as sturdy as a 4840 tranny, so good for 180-200 PTO HP. I just need to check if the 5400 engine is not turned up, and things would be fine...

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If I only had time for such project. I actually saw a 760A PS go thru a local auction a couple months ago. Running and driving, brought somewhere between 5 and 6k. Guy said he was gonna take it home and move some dirt. Wish I would've had the change to bring it home since they are rather scarce around these parts.
 
Not much progress. I moved from Kansas to Italy earlier this year. So I am much closer to it, but still way too far to work on it. All parts are gathered for it, and it will happen! That's for sure.
I have secured the rear horizontal PTO shaft in the US, which is the most difficult part to get, as it was a very rare option on 760A only. I believed that I got the only one for sale in the US. I have studied a lot the parts book and think about how I will do it. It is more and more clear in my mind. I am anxious to open the rear cover and see if the case has the bosses for the rockshaft load control, and under it, I would like to check what I need to do for the drawbar support. I would bet that the bosses are there, but it is impossible to be sure before I check.

Also the hydraulic circuit seems slightly different for the cooler circuit compare to a 4620 powershift, but I think that I will do exactly like the 4620 powershift I have.
I do not have the 760A oil cooler, so I will put 2 5020 oil cooler in parrallel, one on each side. The trans pump has a huge GPM compared to a 46 PS, so I am not sure how it will work.
 
The 760A and 4630 PST have same trans input shaft. But I don't see why you would need it?
 
(quoted from post at 17:22:39 09/28/17) The 760A and 4630 PST have same trans input shaft. But I don't see why you would need it?
fdt860 Hey I got a760A opened up now .See if I post some photos (Rear case) for rock shaft right?? Need to get wife to post !
 
That would be awesome.
Yes, if you could take picture from top of diff, then from side left to check if the 4 plugs for the rockshaft are there (are in parts book but want to see them), and one picture on the bottom to see if there are the bosses for the drawbar support. That would be great.
 
(quoted from post at 05:43:58 09/29/17) That would be awesome.
Yes, if you could take picture from top of diff, then from side left to check if the 4 plugs for the rockshaft are there (are in parts book but want to see them), and one picture on the bottom to see if there are the bosses for the drawbar support. That would be great.
 
fdt860 I Went down to shop (1947 block shop) somewhat disarray to snap some photos .top looking down , bottom of case (out side) R.H.&L.H. Where drawbar on a farm tractor starts ( I have a support there ) My wife tryed to post info. Don't know where it went ? Not a user friendly site for posting photos !! I'll see if they pop up?
 
(quoted from post at 18:30:38 09/29/17) fdt860 I Went down to shop (1947 block shop) somewhat disarray to snap some photos .top looking down , bottom of case (out side) R.H.&L.H. Where drawbar on a farm tractor starts ( I have a support there ) My wife tryed to post info. Don't know where it went ? Not a user friendly site for posting photos !! I'll see if they pop up?


Thats nice.
You can attach pictures to your posts directly in the forum "reply" .
Click simply on choose file. Select picture. And wait for text with image link to popup in your reply.
 
(quoted from post at 16:34:23 09/30/17)
(quoted from post at 18:30:38 09/29/17) fdt860 I Went down to shop (1947 block shop) somewhat disarray to snap some photos .top looking down , bottom of case (out side) R.H.&L.H. Where drawbar on a farm tractor starts ( I have a support there ) My wife tryed to post info. Don't know where it went ? Not a user friendly site for posting photos !! I'll see if they pop up?


Thats nice.
You can attach pictures to your posts directly in the forum "reply" .
Click simply on choose file. Select picture. And wait for text with image link to popup in your reply.
fdt860 she went a class reunion.I don't understand the sea quinces to post photos! Here's my phone # Three -ONE-7- five-0-six-four-five- two-0. I can send to your phone. U can post photos for others to see ! Send my a text!
 
Thank you Widetrack, that is very neat to take your time for this.
It is like I expected: Some drilling and tapping there and there will have to be done.
How do you proceed for drilling holes in castings like this? I have been thinking to modify a drill press with:
- Cutting bottom of the column
- Make an adjustable support for it that I can mount to the surface to be drilled.
- Main idea is that I would like to use it for this project, and for other tasks like drilling trough John Deere wedge bolts, so it will be big enough to run a 3/4 drill bit.

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I noticed your "big Ouch" on the shaft support.
What is that? PTO shaft idler? Is it broken of the casting?
 
Will I start to respond got it all written push button??? Nothing what a joke.?Nothing gone. Guess I'll get kids to respond I'm to slow.
 
(reply to post at 18:50:15 10/05/17) FDT 860 Powershift trans I'm working on Going back in scraper. As far as drilling in housing I'd be careful About drill bit walking .Cast is soft to drill.Tapping holes may need special tap for cast???? The BIG-OUCH in photo is someone's lack of repair . Big-ouch is where pto brake go's in housing bore hole. The photo that has a shaft on top of trans housing is countershaft for PTO brake drum on end of shaft. The big-ouch spot was heated up I think to remove anchor pin.Eather the Snap ring that holds brake dum from sliding on splines on shaft Came apart? And drum slid & brake Disc came out of bore & took out anchor pin ? Going to strip trans housing down to have it bored& sleeved & Add a extra anchor pin to brake disc. That's the thought . Boring from front throw mid-sections to big-ouch approx 1" deep & sleeve. I might get by with a patch job but this is not a farm tractor the pto gets used a lot loading dirt. Constantly on& off all day long . Don't want to go back in repair!only want to $$pay myself 1 time. Started out think bad trans pump.Yes I think it was run low on oil do to rear axel seal leaking & bearings loose ! Doing more investigation come a cross this big -ouch putting air psi air coming out of brake piston bore.
 
(reply to post at 18:50:15 10/05/17) FDT 860 Powershift trans I'm working on Going back in scraper. As far as drilling in housing I'd be careful About drill bit walking .Cast is soft to drill.Tapping holes may need special tap for cast???? The BIG-OUCH in photo is someone's lack of repair . Big-ouch is where pto brake go's in housing bore hole. The photo that has a shaft on top of trans housing is countershaft for PTO brake drum on end of shaft. The big-ouch spot was heated up I think to remove anchor pin.Eather the Snap ring that holds brake dum from sliding on splines on shaft Came apart? And drum slid & brake Disc came out of bore & took out anchor pin ? Going to strip trans housing down to have it bored& sleeved & Add a extra anchor pin to brake disc. That's the thought . Boring from front throw mid-sections to big-ouch approx 1" deep & sleeve. I might get by with a patch job but this is not a farm tractor the pto gets used a lot loading dirt. Constantly on& off all day long . Don't want to go back in repair!only want to $$pay myself 1 time. Started out think bad trans pump.Yes I think it was run low on oil do to rear axel seal leaking & bearings loose ! Doing more investigation come a cross this big -ouch putting air psi air coming out of brake piston bore.
 
FDT860 looking at your writing on photos .Drill out for rockshaft on INSIDE trans case (wall) I think it's called a R.H. Drill mill for tight spots ?? I found a guy that has the right equipment to bore deep his equipment has enough table travel.He seems farmarly w/deere's. Trying to get housing bored next week???? Thank my son for posting photos he said easy to do . Hope this doesn't Dubble post!
 
Hello, Tractor is still in piece, under roof, with all parts scattered veryclose together. Only major missing part is a flywheel, the donor transmission did not get one.

I have three 3020 and two 4020 to redo before I can get to it, and I may do the 4320 ps first.
 
(quoted from post at 13:31:40 01/07/21) Hello, Tractor is still in piece, under roof, with all parts scattered veryclose together. Only major missing part is a flywheel, the donor transmission did not get one.

I have three 3020 and two 4020 to redo before I can get to it, and I may do the 4320 ps first.
Well sounds like your plate is full!
Was hoping to see the project wrapping up!
I know how it goes through, stuff just keeps jumping in line.👌
 

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