Re: 6030 or 5020 powershift ?

You have my attention.....

Quite a project.Keep us posted on your progress.

I share Tim's comments..................Please do keep up posted. You certainly have my attention! Would love to be involved in this project, but have too many other things going on in my life. Work, family, overhauling a 100+ year old house, farming, community involvement, church, etc. I personally thank you for taking on this challenge. I can imagine hearing the theme music from "Mission Impossible." I have complete faith in this being "MISSION PROBABLE!" Good luck in this and if you are in need of any moral support, you know where to vent your frustrations and look for encouragement.

Projects like this can be a handful, that's for sure, and I enjoy watching them take shape. You need to start with an idea,pencil out a plan,,then walk around the plan a bit to make sure it has a good possible out come,,then secure the basic parts and pieces,,after all that you have to think "out side" of the box to bring it all together. What a great way to exercise your mind and skills...

It sounds like you have a good plan to start with. I have not done anything near as involved as your doing but I have done some engine swaps from one series to another. Here is what I will bet you will find. The major stuff will work out easier than you think. JD was pretty good about keeping things like bell housing patterns and such the same. That being the case I will tell you that there will be some little silly things that will make you pull your hair out getting them to work and look good. You already are talking about the tow disconnect lever. That one you know about. There will be some other stuff like that that will take time and effort to work out.

I look forward to seeing you get your project done. It will be quite the conversation starter when completed.

That looks like a super neat project but way beyond my skills. Keep us updated with pics as it progresses. Tom

Wasn't there a 3rd JD 60 project pending ? I was so intrigued and information overloaded by the 60 crawler and the still classified 60 4WD project. I can't recall the 3rd 60 project .

It should be much easier than the 60 crawler or 60 4WD from TimS. What I am doing is just correcting Deere marketing decision and offering the 5620 powershift. Biggest engineering challenge is to create the linkage for the powershift, and to relocate nicely the 3 hydraulic filters. The transmission one, super long with 2 filters on top of each other, also contains the trans shifting dampening pistons, instead of having them in the shifting valve like the 4620... Too big to fit anywhere easy, will see when I get there...

It would take me a while to complete, I just moved in another country and have small kids. But I gathered all the important parts while in the US to get it done, plus found the last 760A in France and a 5400... Will work on it during vacations.

Brad Walk told me that there is one already made or already started by someone in Illinois, so this one would not be a first, I guess.

Can't wait to see your project done. After you are done you
need to get it in some of the tractor magazines so we can
read about it. On the marketing comment. I suspect the
reason JD never offered a 6030 powershift is it would have
made an already expensive tractor more expensive. A 6030
cost as much if not more then the 300 hp Versatile 900. Now
there are some things a 6030 can do a Versatile can't but by
and large the 4 wheel drive and nicer cab if the Versatile
prevailed. That's why you didn't see too many 6030s around
here. I only know of two original ones and both are owned by
cousins. However 7520s were a lot more popular.

Back then the big tractors were put in a working gear and stayed there all day pulling a plow or disc,,the power shift option was not needed.. The Chore tractors were the ones that benefited more with the power shift option.

You are preaching to the choir. That's how we still farm on the wheat plains of MT. My cousins bought their 1st 6030 because they were looking for a tractor big enough to replace their IH TD-18A crawler on the plow but be nimble enough with a PTO to use on their forage choppers. They had a feedlot at the time

What you say make sense on flatlands, but on hills, the powershift would have been nice: Disking up hill in 4th, going down in 5th... Problem is that the PS having only 8 speeds, you need quite big hills or soil variations to justify the powershift. Where I grew up, I can use it, because fields are hilly with sometime good soils at the bottom and more than 60% clay going uphill... For chores or for fun, the 8SPD is perfect, for pure traction, the 15SPD or the QR is best...

I have seen quite a few 4020 STD powershift and even 4620 powershift standard, like this one. So why did they buy those for?

http://www.auctiontime.com/listings...ine/9777485/1971-john-deere-4620?ohid=9777485

To obtain the FWD on a 5020/6030. Is there any practical way to drive from the front of the pinion gear shaft ?
Those IH rowcrop tractors of the 1960's or 1970's with FWD , they had a drive emerging from the left side of the transmission case. Did they gear to gear or use a chain out the side of the transmission case from the pinion gear shaft ?

It would be quite but not super easy to make a 4620 into MFWD using a 4650 clutch housing and parts, or maybe whole rear end, giving you a 4620 15SPD powershift MFWD. Some welding to be done on the clutch housing to adapt the dash support and make it look like a 4620, but can be done...

I think that it is easier to use a powershift transmission to get a MFWD, because they have the reduction gears on the back, and that can possibly be used to drive another pinion going to the side of the tractor.

The Moline like the GVI are using a triple chain going from the differential shaft and trough the clutch housing. In theory, it is possible to do the same thing, plus it might be better on the 5020 because this area is under oil already. Will requires some serious machining in the housings and a way to lengthen the differential shaft some.

Your not going to find room to put a chain drive on a 5020 differential drive shaft,,just saying...when you go to modifying a transmission to gain power to drive a MFWD axle you are looking at a serious project, matching the ratio is a big deal in itself..putting old sheet metal on a newer unit is easy, bringing power out of an old transmission case puts the difficulty level much higher...

We have hills in wheat country too. Great grandpa bought a
4020 wheatland with a powershift back in 64'.

(quoted from post at 11:12:05 02/03/17) Your not going to find room to put a chain drive on a 5020 differential drive shaft,,just saying...when you go to modifying a transmission to gain power to drive a MFWD axle you are looking at a serious project, matching the ratio is a big deal in itself..putting old sheet metal on a newer unit is easy, bringing power out of an old transmission case puts the difficulty level much higher...

Click to expand...

I know the MFWD is a big project, but it has been done by some companies on 5020s , needs to understand how...
As I said, the MFWD is easier on the powershifts, and that is what Elwood kit is made for.
I think that it is possible today to do it better on the powershifts, by machining the bottom of the trans case under the reduction train and get the power off under the tractor, then machine the interface of the gearbox housing with the clutch housing about 1" deep on all the lower 2 rows of bolt, and sandwitch a 1" plate at least to support a MFWD clutch and gearbox housing of a 4650 (the things that goes almost under the motor). Then forward of this, it is all JD4650 front axle (hydraulic clutch, same style drive shaft, centered U joint, Dana or JD axle, etc... Would look factory. The advantage of sandwitching a plate is that you can use it to connect to reinforce the drawbar support, that would probably have to be greatly modified anyway. But I think that you got the idea...
As you said, challenge is to get at right speed and right direction, but it is possible with lot of money or/and time.

As you can see on that Elwood setup for 5020, the driveshaft is installed on the right, wich sujest that they got the power from the differential shaft. Only possible way is the front, and I believe it is possible if you go out off the clutch housing to the right. This is what the lower picture suggest, the U joint goes exactly at the right front of the differential shaft.

Also, the top pictures suggest that there is no PTO lever, which might comfirm that they put a gear there and it would not clear the PTO clutch? Those pictures are hard to read, so it is just a guess, but certainly, the power was taken from front of the differential shaft to the right of the tractor.




The only other way I can think off to get the power out is to machine the differential itself, bolt another gear (big enough to fit arund the diff), then put a shaft that goes trough the side of the tractor (on the right side, in one of the 2 lower corners? (it would have to clear the trumpet), and then a bevel set somewhere and a reduction of any type to a properly place u joint. This would look somehat weird, but it is another way to do it. I tought about this after thinking off the County tractors, that take the power for each front wheel directly in the trumpet (That is indeed, another way to do it, a County Deere 5020 .)

Last picture did not load:

http://www.farmphoto.com/image.aspx?n=3488c469-bc53-4f39-bb21-7880879776a2.jpg&s

That's interesting..

(quoted from post at 23:50:20 02/04/17)

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ey fdt860 if you any of the tin off the 760a or steel hyd lines . I'd be interested in them $$ .I'm trying to fix up 760a. I like your project.keep us posted how it's coming good luck.

The tin is in France, that is the problem. Call Weller at Great Bend, they have 760 tractor parts. Wengers of Wyertown also have 760a sT

ims, My brain wake up and I have think of another option to make the MFWD work on 5020 SR: Do it like massey on the 200/500 series, using a spacer... On the massey, the spacer used only on the 4WD is between the tranny and the rear axle, but on the 5020, it would have to be front of the gearboxe.

This means:Make a spacer between clutch housing and gearbox, Install the oil pump to the front side of the spacer, so the tube shaft and shifter for the PTO can stay untouched. The PTO clutch can stay up front as well, that will require to redo the machining for the PTO clutch ring seals, which should not be that easy, but I guess a bolt on piece can be machined on a lathe...


Then the spacer can be made taller than the tranny under the tractor to include the mounting for the 4650 MFWD clutch housing (under the motor on picture below), and which such a setup, it should be easy to get all the gears required to have right speed and direction. For fun, this would allow to install another diff lock pedal to engage the 4WD without electronics, and disengage it the same way, with the pedals...
PTO shaft would have to be lenthened, as well as clutch shaft, but that is the easiest part, because sliding couplers might be used or something else that simple.
This solution seems somewhat realistic to do at home, because it involve welding a big spacer; designing it on a computer, and machining everything to spec. The spacer would not be as tall to machine as the tranny itself, and would allow installation of the John Deere style front axle, which is for me the only way to go on a new gen if I go trough that much effort. An Elwood or Coleman does not look right, does not steer, etc... Might be cheaper to install so, that is the advantage...

The tractor would then be slighlty longer (8-12 inches), platform would have to be lenghtened, and seat moved forward accordingly, but that is a detail. This would make entrance in the tractor easier, like a MM Vista...
Anyway, just dreaming here, but you made me think, I got a gearboxe from a 5020, and in France I can get a front axle + wheels for a 46-4850 for about $2500, so maybe I should gather parts for when I retire...

The transmission spacer idea has merit,,and will still take a lot of thought...but that's part of the fun in the adventure..

I have had that happen before. Stinks don't it. I have gotten the point that if I write out a long response, I will copy the text before hitting the button just in case.