2130 chatter from front pump?

Ken11487

Member
Have a 66 hp 2130 4000hr, bought new with dealer installed 146 loader. Dealer rebuilt/checked over front pump 5 yrs/200hrs ago.
I have a metalic chattering noise from the area of the front pump. Seems to go away when a hyd function is used like the loader or the scv even with no load attached to it.
Tractor works ok when cold but after 15 min of running the noise starts and the loader will not move well. A guage in SCV showed 2400 psi at all tests, noise or not.
We tore it down to replace leaking front main seal and other leaks. Found the pump driveshaft and rubber bushings in good shape but the bolts in the pulley were slightly "egged" to the side and there were rub marks from the bushing clamp on the pulley. Pulley was replaced, seal surface was grooved anyway. Tractor still makes chattering noise almost as loud as before. A look inside the stroke control circuit showed nothing bad. I thought we would find a broken spring.
Could it be loose seats in the pump bores? have yet to look at them, figured dealer should have them in good shape. I thought if it was starving for oil the SCV would show low pressure.

Another noise, possibly related, comes from the clutch area. Happens at low idle or when starting off at idle in road gear. Sounds like a hammer tapping on large heavy gears. Sometimes goes away if the throttle is bumped, or reved up.

We have been chasing these noises for years now and they are getting more common and the tractor is useless when warmed up.

Any ideas appreciated.
 

Does tractor have hyd hi-lo &/or hyd ind pto? If so could be leaking supply pipes for those hyd controlled functions. What type valve controls loader? Noise could possibly worn inlet/outlet valve seating areas.
 
It shouldn't matter but I would like to know which pump you have. The smaller pump has a "dish" on the front side..
Does the steering get lazy when the loader slows down? I assume if you shut down for a while and restart things work ok again for a little while?
I have a theory on what is happening but need a little more info.
The other noise at the clutch end could be the springs in the dampner of the clutch disk beginning to fail.
I am thinking you are in Canada?
 
Like Tech 7 stated we need to know a little more about it,,my initial thoughts are the transmission clutch torsion springs are giving you the "Rattle" in the clutch area,, and the front pump is starving for oil, making it rattle,, at the reasons for it starving can be many...I bet if you turn the steer wheel when you test the pressure at the SCV it will drop the pressure on the gauge,,even a hungry pump will make enough pressure to fill a tiny gauge.. You are about to open "Pandora's Box"...
 
thanks guys, you are the best!

The tractor has hi/lo left of steering wheel. loader valve is JD stock from new, 146 loader.

Think it is the small pump. Has large indent in front of pump.
Steering seems ok, when it cools off it works again for a while.

I think I am just south of you, Tech 7, near Chatham.

I think starving for oil, too. Will do another test with steering wheel and scv tomorrow.
Can we check the clutch torsion springs through the inspection holes on the side or "get out the splitting stand"?
 
make sure you check the screen bottom transmission behind a big plug that take a half inch ratchet to remove also all the oil well drain out and hyd filter
 

Ken
Do hyd act the same with hyd hi0lo in either speed? Try operating with power steering supply capped off to determine if steering valve is leaking internally. 3 pt raised,engine running look for moving oil With hyd filler cap removed.
 
Tractor at shop temperature 55deg and yanking the steering wheel back and forth "madly" the pressure drops to around 1500psi. The guage bounces in a range of 300psi all the time. Same with transmission in hi or lo. Ran for only 5 min inside.
Took tractor outside (below freezing) let warm for 15 min and pressure drop was only 250 psi when moving steering wheel at high idle. Guage was much steadier.
Pressure drop was minimal when engine reved up to half throttle.

But shouldn't there be enough oil in the reservoir above the main pump to last a while?
 
(quoted from post at 18:09:46 02/09/17) Tractor at shop temperature 55deg and yanking the steering wheel back and forth "madly" the pressure drops to around 1500psi. The guage bounces in a range of 300psi all the time. Same with transmission in hi or lo. Ran for only 5 min inside.
Took tractor outside (below freezing) let warm for 15 min and pressure drop was only 250 psi when moving steering wheel at high idle. Guage was much steadier.
Pressure drop was minimal when engine reved up to half throttle.

But shouldn't there be enough oil in the reservoir above the main pump to last a while?

Oil in reservoir will be gone in seconds . If there is any leak on the high pressure side .
How are the loader hydraulics connected to the tractor ? Have you tried the tractor with the loader hydraulic supply and return line disconnected ?
 
Also, in the last test outside in cool weather the pump noise never showed up. Probably not enough work to get it hot enough

The loader return is factory plumed to the filter housing, pressure is "T"ed under the right foot. Dealer installed new. Worked well for 35 of the last 39 yrs.
Tractor currently has the loader removed for shop work, fix leaks, a stickey brake pedal and such.
Steering is the only "easy" load to test with right now.
 
(quoted from post at 18:28:03 02/09/17)
How are the loader hydraulics connected to the tractor ? Have you tried the tractor with the loader hydraulic supply and return line disconnected ?

To test loader valve for internal leakage one needs to remove return line then remove hyd coupler from return line & place open hose in bucket or tractor hyd filler hole. With both valve control levers in neutral, start engine and no oil should exit open hyd return oil hose.
 
I'll try the loader test tomorrow, have the brake pedals off now for stuck pivot pin. Supposed to be warmer so may get a better test with warm oil.
 
Ken; I am wondering if you have a high pressure leak. This is an issue on this system and, on this series of tractors, not uncommon. An easy check is to remove the hydraulic oil filler cap and with the engine running look through the filler towards the front and right side of the rockshaft housing. An oil spray or stream indicates a leak at the rockshaft valve which will out run what the transmission pump can supply to the main pump and give you the symptoms you describe. If this is the case its not a big job to repair.
Let us know what you find out.
 
Plugged in block heater for a few hours Sat. When I took the tractor outside the noise was back most of the time, stops when a hydraulic function is pressed. Warmed up for a half hour more and looked in the oil filler hole. I expected to see a high pressure spray but found a stream about what you get with a steady press on a pump style oil can, about 1/8' across, falling on the edge of a large gear to the right side, as Tech 7 predicted. I did not see this before when checking on a relatively cold tractor.
Is it time to lift the rockshaft housing?
 
Probably. You can try turning in the rate of drop screw on the top of the rockshaft housing to see if that changes the flow that you see, but if its leaking on the pressure side it won't change.
All the parts to repair this problem are in kit AL57974. Don't worry if this confuses the parts people, the kit number is from a 2140 catalog and does not show in the 2130 book. It still works though.
 
Forgot to say that the stream went on for 1 to 2 min after the tractor was shut off. Maybe the tank at the front draining dos through the leak?
Is this probably a rock shaft seal leak or a lift cyl leak, or a bit of both??
 

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