70 different transmission --why?

Hello all. There's a question I would like to put out there, been on my mind a long time: what could have been Deere engineers' reason for the high range/low range transmission combined with the 3 speed? Am I correct that no other 2 cylinder Waterloo tractor used this combo? Thanks, Hugh

They just carried it over from the G models.

No, you're not correct. Before the single stick six speed A's and B's were introduced the six speed A's and B's used a two stick transmission.

Since we're on this subject, anyone got any pro's or con's on the 3 speed HI/LOW vs. 6 speed? It would seem that you would have less parts with the 3 sp. H/L vs. have a transmission with 6 gears, which would be cheaper to make and less parts to go bad, but maybe not. I've got 2 70's and like the Hi-Low better than I do the 6 speed in my 50 and 60.

The single stick six speed tractors such as the 60 are still just a three speed transmission with a high/low gear set on the input side .

The 70 is the only "numbered" tractor I've used. Used A's and G's that has the H-L lever like the 70. I think the 6 "individual" style is a needless complication since they aren't shift-on-the- go transmissions anyway. Sometimes I'll get my 70 trying to go into 2 gears at once. I can usually put the H-L lever in it's tiny "neutral" position and take enough stress off of the other gears to tickle it back into where it should be. My $.025 (after considering inflation).

The 3 speed hilo trans is almost the same as the single stick. The only difference is that the single stick shifts the hilo range when you go from one side to the other.

Changing gears with one stick is easier than having to use two.
Probably cheaper to build also.

While we're in this subject, I have a 46 B that I got not running so it will be a learning curve for me. From what I under stand you cannot shift while moving like a modern standard Tran. you need to stop to change gears.

Owning B's, A's and a 70D and having worked in the transmission of all of them..... to MY knowledge all 6 speed lettered and numbered 2 cylinder Waterloo tractors had 3 speed (and of course reverse) transmissions with either an overdrive or an under drive on the input to give the whole assembly 6 forward speeds to choose from. This speed range change took place just inside the main case between the input shaft to which the primary reduction gear is soundly attached and the main transmission's sliding gear shaft. In all of them, one range had the sliding gear shaft locked to the input with a collar. In the OTHER range these shafts were separated with the sliding gear shaft rolling on a pilot bearing inside the left end of the input shaft. The input shaft of course stayed the same speed because that was a function of the engine and number of teeth on the pulley & primary reduction gears. The sliding gear shaft went either faster or slower depending on if it was an over drive or an under drive design! Some shifted UP for the high range with LO being the direct. The others had HI as the direct and the LO was an under drive. In both designs this took place through a cluster gear rolling freely on a roller bearing on the right end of the counter shaft.

The later single stick designs (only one gear shift) actually had the same design inside the case! Deere for the most part just changed the shape of the shifters so the single gear shift could shift both the main transmission and the speed range part of the over or under drive setup with a single stick and a bit more complicated shifter quadrant.

If you note the single stick 6 speeds all have one part of the gear shift pattern that in one slot they slide a goodly distance from a group of options on the left to a group on the right. When passing through THAT long gate from one group to the other this single stick is doing EXACTLY the same thing you did on the earlier tractors with the two stick arrangements when you slid the hi lo stick from one to the other. All the main gear shifters in the single stick gearboxes have two gates on them. As an example, on the late B when you shift from a left side neutral to 3rd, you're moving the same main transmission shifter and same main transmission gear as when you shift from a right side neutral to first gear. When you slide across the lower gate from the right group of gears to the left side group you're shifting the speed range shifter to direct drive. The B had an under drive arrangement. It was in direct drive when in the high side and under drive when on the lo side. I could have it backwards but I believe the A had an over drive arrangement but the principle was the same.

I've never been into the guts of a G but I suspect them quite similar to the 70D which I have been in. Deere just never designed a setup of shifters and quadrants that allowed the G or the 70 to work with only a single stick! The overall concept of the transmissions with 6 speeds were mostly the same regardless of the tractor model. For the most part only the size of the parts and the number of teeth changed! They weren't identical at all but they were similar in concept.

This Deere arrangement was not functionally all that different from the Cockshutt/Oliver "double H" shift pattern if you're at all familiar with those!

Hope that helps.

Yes you are to be at a complete stop while shifting or else tranny damage can occur. I have seen and heard (ouch) many shifting them on the go. I have also seen the damage they made too !
The guys shifting that hi-low on the move grinding it in are the worst as on one side the gear teeth are really short and when rounded off then it starts popping out pretty easy.

(quoted from post at 19:00:44 10/28/16) While we're in this subject, I have a 46 B that I got not running so it will be a learning curve for me. From what I under stand you cannot shift while moving like a modern standard Tran. you need to stop to change gears.

Click to expand...

Straight cut gears and no syncro's .

hand clutch & foot shift. When in high range & load got to be too much, you pull the clutch & kick the shifter to low on the go & reengage the clutch. It dropped 2 gears except for 6th went to 5th.

My dad ran his 80 for many years and shifted on the go with the plow packer and pony drill or the chisel plow in the ground. I still have his 70d which gets shifted on the go. He taught me when I must have been 4 or 5 how to do it. My older brother retired a few years ago and was driving my peterbilt and I was riding with him in it one day and I see dad taught him how to shift to. I shift all my tractors without the clutch after I am moving. Use the throttle and you never click a gear. I take that back. My 8760 I use the clutch, but the 4440 I do not. It has over 18000 hours on it. My 4520 (sincro range) has over 14000 hours and these tractors have not have the cluch used very much. Dad learned how to shift while working on the Garrison dam in the late 1940's while driving ukes that were pieced together. My one armed (50 cal. tattoo remover he called it))uncle taught him. It is all about the right rpms.

You are right that all the Waterloo are three speeds with a high low...except for the R and 80 series. They are true 5 or 6 speeds. Not that it changes your very good answer of the question!

Brandon

Send me a personal email there son. I haven't heard from you in a while .

Never worked on THAT end of either R or 80 tractors! So far all I ever did to THOSE was work on the cranking engines! Today was a good day, I learned something new!

Thanks.

But your email is closed?

I appreciate all the feedback, especially buckeye al--that is what in education we call a complete, detailed response! Hugh