2 Cylinder JD PTO - Worthless??????

Bill VA

Well-known Member
One of the comments to my earlier post regarding the JD50 was potential PTO driveline issues when using 2 cylinder JD tractors. Seems like I read something to that effect somewhere else, but can't find it in some searching.

What is the skinny on running PTO driven implements with a 2 cylinder JD tractor? Are they just apt to pulse and break/bust the drivelines downstream of the tractor?

When it comes to using a JD 2 cylinder tractor for PTO work - are they simply worthless?

We make square bales of hay and do some bush hogging - all of which require PTO power from the tractor. Not looking to buy a 2 cylinder JD, but if a deal came along I might consider it. It would be good to know the fallout of using a 2 cylinder JD with our equipment prior to any purchase.

Just curious.

Thanks,
Bill
 
I have never had a problem with the Live PTO on my JD 50 or JD 730. baled and bush hog with the 730 and only bush hog with the 50. Now if you turn to sharp with PTO equipment you may get some drive line chatter.
 

I've sq baled hay with a JD BO utilizing a JD 214 baler with no problems. I don't remember many driveline issues when farmers utilized 2 cyl tractor pto's when I was employed at JD dealer.
 
A fellow that I know has run a 336 baler since new with 2 cylinder JD's and I do not recall any comments about excessive driveline maintenance.
 
The spring I graduated from high school my Dad bought a new JD Model 60 with live PTO. When put on a sprinkler irrigation system's centrifugal pump driven through a belt drive off the PTO, it would split one of the U-Joints in the drive shaft between the tractor's PTO and pump-drive gearbox about every week. I seem to recall the bushings or bearings in the tractor's PTO drivetrain that's in the bottom of the differential case had to be replaced after a month or two of this use too. Now that was pretty unusual PTO work - full load, maybe even more, and perhaps 20 hours per day. After a few months the 60 was replaced by 4-cylinder engine Massey 44 and the U-Joint problem went away. For normal loads and uses, like field work or grinding feed and the like, I don't recall hearing any problems with use of the PTO on a 2 cylinder tractor.
 

The low rpm A, D , 60 and 70 gas can be rough on the Pto. The higher rpm B, 50,520/530, 620/630, 720/730 and any diesel are ok.
 
Well depending on equipment some will run harder than others. Many problems were also likely caused because of the offset live pto. You were to swing the drawbar over to align it all up. I always tell people if you are planning on doing a lot of pto work there are better choices even though many got along fine with the 2 cyl.
 
Before my time but I do remember my Dad telling me that the A ran the Case blower fine on the belt but would break shear bolts when they upgraded to a Kools PTO blower.
 
I remember helping a neighbor bale a big field. I don't remember the reason, but he was using my 630 on his 14T? baler, and was mad because "the 630 was busting shear bolts" on his baler. I was using my 50 pulling my old NH baler, with no problems. He went home and got his MF 175 and proceeded to bust more shear bolts with it. His baler was usually trouble free, but that day it had a problem.
 
I run grain augers frequently with 2 cylinders, and no problems. A 50 has a relatively high engine speed and not the power of something bigger, so it should be no issue. I wrote on here last month about my grandfather, the JD 116W baler, and his choice of tractors to pull it. He had a late JD A, and a Farmall Super MTA. It seems the A was on the baler a lot more than the Farmall, despite the Farmall having live PTO.

It shouldn't be deal breaker if you want to buy a 50.
 
The A ,B ,50,60 have bushings on the main pto bevel gears and they also came out with an updated way to install them and redrill an oil hole to get them to hold up better. I don't know if it fixed the problem or not as I'm betting all the ones I did were not ran hard on the pto afterwards.
 
I have never experienced PTO problems that I trace back to the Deere 2 cylinder tractors. I used to own a JD 50 with Independent PTO and used it to bush hog mow pasture and only issue I had was I felt it was under powered. I have also used JD 530 - 630-730's on different mowers and no major issues.
 

Well...you must remember that anything can and will be torn anything up if it is misused...


When you do operate a JD 2-Cylinder tractor under a load, you WILL be surprised at just how Smooth the engine power output really IS..

As long as the RPM is kept at or near "Rated" RPM, there is little or no pulsing from power strokes..

It is when the RPMs fall too far that there will develop a "Lunging" that will whip on the PTO and that is severe..

We first bought our "New" JD equipment in 1952. Ran the 116W with a JD "B" until we bought a new AC WD-45 and that went on the baler and that was a perfect match.

The sound of that "B" ( with a straight pipe) when running that baler was Great..!!

The governors opened 52 times every Minute..(Plunger Speed)..!

Never did see any undue wear or damage from the 2-cylinder JD's. but it can be done...
 
That's a really good point, Mike, about swinging the drawbar over to compensate for the offset live pto. Just for funsies, did you learn that from the operator's manual? I didn't remember seeing that. Thanks, Hugh
 
Back in the '60,s our neighbor and us farmed together as far as harvest. He had a 620 on the baler and did a LOT of hay for himself,us and a couple relatives of his. Never any problem or even talk of "wish I had something else" to run it.
 
Years ago, we ran a MC-600 dryer with a 730 diesel. Those two big fans gave it all the load it wanted, made the 'ol girl pound away pretty good.

It was tough on the PTO driveline, at one point snapping off the shaft on the dryer where the PTO shaft attached.

We later put a LOT of hours on the dryer with a 4020, with NO driveline problems.
 
I don't remember if it is in the tractor manual or implement manuals ? But if you look there is a set of bolt holes on the cross bar not in the same row as the others that puts it in line with the pto on many of them.
 
Back in the 60's we ran a Brillion hay crusher/crimper with a 52 G in third gear, and baled with a 14t baler with the same tractor in first gear and never had a problem in the eight years I drove it. She was a thirsty beast but was the only tractor on my Uncle's farm that would pull a three bottom plow through the wet blue clay. Loved to hear those old two cylinders bark!
 
In laws filled silo with a late D on the blower in the mid 1960's.The biggest silo was 75ft center fill, makes for 80 ft of pipe. It apparently took a fair bit of furnace oil but thats how they managed. When the new 4020 came along and replaced the D-17 Chalmers on the harvester, production went up and the D was out paced. The D-17 went on the blower.
I started helping fill silo there in the mid 70's. The blower had its original drive line. I wish someone had made a video of that D talking that silage up the pipe.
The good news is that the same D is in my shop undergoing restoration.
 
The first tractor I ever used to bale hay/straw was an old JD-A hand start. Used it in the Cleveland MS area to bale rice straw for the hwy dept. Did that the spring of 1974 just before going into the navy
 
(quoted from post at 06:25:23 10/20/16) One of the comments to my earlier post regarding the JD50 was potential PTO driveline issues when using 2 cylinder JD tractors. Seems like I read something to that effect somewhere else, but can't find it in some searching.

What is the skinny on running PTO driven implements with a 2 cylinder JD tractor? Are they just apt to pulse and break/bust the drivelines downstream of the tractor?

When it comes to using a JD 2 cylinder tractor for PTO work - are they simply worthless?

We make square bales of hay and do some bush hogging - all of which require PTO power from the tractor. Not looking to buy a 2 cylinder JD, but if a deal came along I might consider it. It would be good to know the fallout of using a 2 cylinder JD with our equipment prior to any purchase.

Just curious.

Thanks,
Bill
years ago my neighbor was baling hay with his JD 40 utility tractor and a JD baler(don't remember the model) when the baler took in a heavy chunk of hay...it stalled his little JD tractor on the spot. From what I remember he had to go very slow on the windrows to make it work.
 
I've been running my 273 behind a 51 A for several seasons. Baler's driveline is kind of sloppy and rattles in a tight turn but it works fine. Just keep the RPM up. I have used a 5 foot pull-type Woods on it to knock down heavy hay, not so good. If the engine pulls down too much the mower starts jumping off the ground. Even had the pin pop out in a turn once. I got it stopped before there was any damage.
 
"<font color="#6699ff">[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]When it comes to using a JD 2 cylinder tractor for PTO work - are they simply worthless?[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]</font>"

Determine the minimum horsepower requirements of the PTO driven implement from the operator's manual.

Use a JD 2 cylinder tractor with horsepower that exceeds the minimum requirement for the PTO driven implement.

We use an <a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/JamesLHowell?feature=mhsn">M, MTs, 40s, As, Bs, and 70s</a> with horsepower that exceeds the minimum horsepower requirement to power the implements attached to them.

Using an 18hp Model M to power a 40hp KRONE 260 baler would be a worthless combination.

Hope this helps.
 
My grandpa and great uncle used to bale with a 14T and aN Oliver 66. There was something wrong with the 66, so they went and got my dad's JD G and hooked it to the baler. Dad sad they didn't use it real long and brought it back all mad. They got the back 2 rows stacked up and got into heavy hay and the old G started kicking and tipped the back 2 rows off the wagon onto the ground. They might have been poor stackers, I don't know, but they both liked alcohol. Not sure if the problem was them, or the tractor.
 
Reminds me of a time I helped a custom Silo filler near 40 years ago. He had a self propelled chopper & his own blower which he powered with a late 820. I think the filler liked the 820 because it used so little fuel compared to the chopper which he re-powered with a 390 Ford V8 out of an old wrecked pickup. Anyhow... The silo owners had to pull the wagons. We pulled into this farm that ran Oliver tractors & the owner laughed at the 820 suggesting they put a real tractor on the blower! They bantered back and forth a bit & the filler simply said you've not seen the old 820 throw silage have you? I don't recall the blower brand but instead of a shear bolt, it had a slip clutch in the drive line. Why that's important will show up later.

Anyhow the owner pulled the first wagon to the silo & throttled the 820 up. We always thought he was intending to prove some point but he let go a HUGE pile off the beaters as though intentionally trying to plug things up & stall the 820 to make the putting stop! If that was his intent, he was not successful! The elbow at the top was rusty & it plugged instantly and of course the pipe was next. When the blower stopped rolling, the 820 just sat there barking about it not giving an inch! The blower pipe was shaking and banging against the empty steel silo making such a racket nobody was sure if they wanted to run to the tractor to shut things down or run away returning to clean up the mess when the racket stopped! The blower was not at all happy as smoke rolled from the slip clutch. It took what seemed forever to clear the pipe but once clear, the Oliver owner never again poked fun at that squatty old knocky John Deere!

Nothing broke!
 
I've always lined the drawbar up under the PTO.

Some of the comments make me wonder if they are trying to operate at a lower PTO speed. I keep the RPM's up and switch gears for ground speed.
 
I ran a JD 14T with a JD 50 on my fathers hill farm in the late 50s and used a JD 50 on my place with a 14T with a category 1 ejector and later a 14T with a pan kicker. I also have used the 50 to power a 5' bush hog., number 5 sickle mower, crimper, combine and a New Holland 479 haybine... which it struggled with in a heavy crop. PTO seemed to operate just fine..was as smooth as my 4 cylinder jobs.
 
I think the problem is manifested by a contiunous HEAVY load such as an irrigation pump. Square balers, rotary cutters, are not.
 
well I've told this story before but here goes. All through the sixties our neighborhood baling ring had a 14T, then a 24T Deere baler and it knocked out about 20,000 bales per year. Through most of the sixties we pulled it with a 730 gas and we knocked out one U joint per year. There was a bang and baling was ended for the rest of the afternoon. Usually it was the front one. When the 730 was traded off for a 4020 in 1969 the 4020 was put on the baler and later a 4030 and that ended the U joint problems. We thought the culprit was the offset PTO on the 730 but it wasn't offset all that much.

Dad picked corn with a Minneapolis pull type picker pulled by a 51 A from 1951 till the later 60's and never had a drive line problem. He said he could see the main drive chain jumping but it never broke nor did the PTO U joints.

I have a hunch the PTO's that could not stand up to a two banger were the lighter duty ones. I ground many, many tons of feed with the 630 with an Artsway grinder with the heavy PTO and the PTO stood up to it without showing a bit of wear or looseness.
 
You will be OK with your 50. It's a high RPM (for a two banger) Deere, hence a smoother power flow. Most of the two banger PTO horror stories come from fans of the 'other' brands who tend to lump all two bangers together as being the root of all evil.
 
I had a hired hand that turned too short all the time and he took u-joints out of my mower twice in a week. It was the front joint and he was using my 4010. I sent him down the road and the neighbor put him on a 30' pull type swather with a canola roller behind. He hit a tree in the ditch while transporting it in transport and destroyed the whole outfit. I put u-joint problems on turning too short.
 
I have a 1959 JD 630 and a 1955 JD 60. Over time they worked a JD #30 combine, JD sidewinder baler, Oliver 620 baler, Ford 601 picker and #400 grinder mixer, and most lately a JD 336 baler. Had to completely rebuild the 60 PTO many years ago and the 630 PTO was completely rebuilt about 6-8 years ago. Never had any problems to speak of breaking U-joints. I always made sure to move the drawbar so it was lined up with the PTO on the tractor except for the grinder-mixer. I also checked the oil level and made sure the adjustment was correct.
 
Never had the live PTO but the A & B with the pressed frame had a slightly offset pto and there were special holes in the cross part the swinging drawbar sat on to align the PTO. Part time we used them but not always. Used the pto on all these JD and never had a problem, 38 A, 46 B, 49 B, 50 AR, 51 A. Uncle had the 70D and don't think he ever had a problem and he was one of these that never took care of anything. The AC dealer knew we had AC 60 combines and that 38 A that powered the one combine. When the shoe broke in one he started that speil about the 2 cylinder Deere causing it, when we told him it was the combine with the factory AC mounted engine he never said anouther word about a Deere PTO.
 
Years and years ago we had an International flail chopper. It would break the yokes regardless of what color of tractor was on it. The yokes were not strong enough and had to be replaced every year. After several years of this we found a new set of yokes and crosses that were much heavy than the original. It went another twenty years or so before we had a failure after that.
 
Yeah, a lot of it might be caused by low engine rpm. We had a 224T baler that my Dad liked to run slowly sometimes when he was making adjustments to it, and for that reason he often put it behind our Farmall 450. We never had any problems with broken pto driven equipment with the 2 cylinders, beyond the norm. As James Howell just said, the 2 key items are ample horsepower and full rated rpm. Hugh
 
A 35 HP JD 50 won't tear up the drive line of your JD 346 baler. If anything the baler will be too much for the tractor if you try to feed the baler anywhere near full capacity. I'd prefer a tractor around 70 HP or more to comfortably handle that baler and a big wagon on hills.
 
Just an added comment.. I grew up filling silos, baling hay and chopping corn with JD B's and A's. We used the 50 B on the blower often, with a belt drive on a JD auger blower and then a belt blower bed and before that WAY back a big Papec bundle cutter/blower..anyone remember those??. Big crow bar driven into the ground behind the tractor and and a load binder chained to the drawbar kept the tractor from jumping under load. Plugged the filler pipe almost NEVER and blew thousands of tons of corn and grass into silos! The A (50) was equally good but we pulled the chopper with it (blew into a truck). I have seen old tractors of all colors on blowers and the green ones are by FAR the best..besides, the music is great!!!
 
I used a 1949 D on the silo blower a few years ago and it blew silage fine but would shear pins every so often. I have never sheared a pin since using it.
 
I've ran a lot of the various 2 cylinders. One of the problems is having your pto drive train centered. Other 3 points the PTO is always centered, however the set up on the Deere's is offset. Naturally this will put your shaft in a bind if you don't center. Also one concern is the thrust of the flywheel is telescoped through the PTO so one want to run the tractor at a high speed...a slow or lopping speed will trash the sheer pins on equipment. At a low speed rpm the old deeres would torque up from the governor and damage the transmission and or drive train and or gear boxes. The older John Deeres weren't even considered for much bushog or other equipment use. Mike M mentioned the brass bushings but I thought all of them had this in the cavity operations. Anyway If one wasn't satisified with the 2 cylinder looping there were other colors....
 
The 70,720,730 had bearings for the pto bevel gears. Might be few others I've forgot about ?
 
(quoted from post at 03:34:38 10/22/16) I've ran a lot of the various 2 cylinders. One of the problems is having your pto drive train centered. Other 3 points the PTO is always centered, however the set up on the Deere's is offset. Naturally this will put your shaft in a bind if you don't center. Also one concern is the thrust of the flywheel is telescoped through the PTO so one want to run the tractor at a high speed...a slow or lopping speed will trash the sheer pins on equipment. At a low speed rpm the old deeres would torque up from the governor and damage the transmission and or drive train and or gear boxes. The older John Deeres weren't even considered for much bushog or other equipment use. Mike M mentioned the brass bushings but I thought all of them had this in the cavity operations. Anyway If one wasn't satisified with the 2 cylinder looping there were other colors....

I have used my 420 to mow with a 3pt RM59 woods finish mower a good bit. The PTO is offset a bit to the left,but there is almost always as much or more vertical offset than there is horizontal offset, so I never worried. The woods is belt drive, and has a VERY heavy drive line. Never an issue, except my wife doesn't understand the concept of downshifting in heavy grass. I would hear the belt squealing from inside the shop when she passed over the field line in the pasture.
 

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