329 engine no start when hot

tomstractorsandtoys

Well-known Member
I have a 329 diesel engine out of a 6600 combine that we overhauled and put in our 95 combine. It will not start after it is warm.The head was done by a shop who is very good with getting the valves right. We had the injection pump rebuilt and new injecters as well. I thought it was the head and rotor in the injection pump so we pulled it off and took it to a shop that put it on a test stand and the pump was almost perfect. He did lower the internal pressure slightly and tweek the timing advance. He said what he did was not enough to really change anything. I reinstalled the pump (180 degrees out by mistake). So rather than work thru the grain bin hole we pulled the front timing cover and rechecked all of the timing marks. It has a new 1000 amp battery,new heavy cables and a rebuilt starter. Yesterday I switched out the starter with a different one and still no better.I know most combines had two batteries but it not even cold yet. One shop said to recheck injecters as they may have to high of a pop setting and I will do that as soon as it either rains or we get finished beans. The machine seems to run good but has a little more rattle to it when reving it up than I think maybe it should have. Is it possible that the timing gears are marked wrong? What else should I try? Ask any questions and I will try to post back answers thru out the day. Thanks Tom
 

Takes a special tool to time the pump gear some of those type engines...can be done by counting teeth...but that's messy. It's a 'timing-cover off' deal to get the gears timed properly
 
Any smoke when cranking during the hot start? No smoke would lead me to believe the injection pump isn't delivering fuel into the cylinders, either not making enough pressure to pop the injector or injector pressure is set too high or combo of both. How does it start first thing? Lazy or real snappy? How fast is it cranking? Where is the fuel tank in relation to the engine, I'm not familiar with the 95, good fuel supply up to the engine?

WARNING, what I'm about to suggest might sieze the pump, but if you suspect the pump is worn out, next time it won't start when hot you can try spraying the pump with water to cool it down and seeing if it will fire.
 
You might try some diesel fuel conditioner as I think your metering valve is sticking . As to the rattle when you accelerate could be because the tweaking of the speed advance was too much And or timing . Also the injectors are set too high ( even though they are set to spec.) and your worn pump just cant crack them hot ,I would drop the pressure a 100 lbs. or so. Don't worry about the timing gears. Did you have the tool to reset the timing gears for the inj. pump, and camshaft gears?
 
Here is my one and only experience with one from a 2840 tractor.
Liners were leaking water was the only reason for a tear down. Had head redone ,new pistons and liners and bearings. Had injectors tested. Nothing done to my pump. Well this thing started up and ran fine but boy oh boy did it smoke !!!! Grayish whitish ? Didn't smoke before so naturally I was in a panic ! I called the shop up that did the cyl. head and I think as it turned out luckily I got the guy that ran the pump shop. On mine he said those pumps were known to wear inside so the timing can be off a bit. Now since the engine had real good compression again it was smoking because the timing was off. He told me about how much to move the pump and in what direction so I did that. I tell you I was never so relieved to see that it cleared it up !

Now I have no idea if any of this will help you,but that's all I got.
 

Do you have an electric fuel pump pushing fuel up to the engine?

If no..or the one on it's bad...maybe needs a new electric fuel pump?
 
I'm thinking you might just need another battery. Remember, there is a fair amount of belt drag on those old girls- you are having to kick over all the variable speed mechanism...

Just to make sure it isn't something simple like this, I think I'd try hooking up another battery (even with a good set of jumper cables or a battery charger) and see if this eliminates your problem.
 
Yes I had the tool for the timing gears. The shop had me put two quarts of automatic trans fluid in the fuel tank as he said it is a solvent and would clean up any thing in the fuel pump. I am going to pull the injecters as soon as beans are done. The pump checked out real good on his test stand. Thanks Tom
 
It has an electric fuel pump and you can hear it pump when you turn the key on and we also installed a fuel check valve to make sure fuel is not draining back to the tank.
 
Hot start I have smoke but it won't fire. Even cold start it seems lazy. I thought about the water (we had a 2240 years ago with a bad pump that we did that to untill we got the pump fixed) but hate to do it with the pump shop last week telling me the pump is perfect. Keep the idea comming. Thanks Tom
 
I have the tool and took the timing cover off to recheck thinking something was off but all the marks are where they should be. Thanks Tom
 
I tried the second battery yesterday when I accidentally shut it off. I even changed out the starter with one from my 2510 with no improvement. The first starter was just rebuilt as I always have the starters rebuilt when doing an overhaul. Tom
 
Tom, try not to over think this problem. If it starts cold, which is the hardest to do, it should fire up when warm. If it starts and runs fair to good then to know the timing , and fuel system is most likely ok. Sounds like a heat problem. What changes when it is warm? Timing wont change, fuel wont change. What about cranking speed? Does the starter drag when warm? Still spin at the same speed? Do you get smoke? Smoke would suggest the electric shut off is working ok so heat isnt hurting it. How about rubber boot from air cleaner? Is it getting soft when warm and collapsing and shutting off the air? Is there a clutch on the machine dragging that gets hot, then drags harder not allowing this engine to come alive? Unhook the machine from the engine and isolate the problem. Engine issue, or machine problem? I have seen valves set to tight, so once the push rods, rockers, valve stems expanded from heat all lash was lost so the valves couldnt close tight which cause a loss of compression. Just eating my lunch and stabbing at it. Hope this helps maybe a little. Good luck,,, Al
 
Tom,

Regardless of what pump guys says, if that is rotary pump, sure sounds like head issue to me.
 
I know but I watched him check it on his test bench. All flows,pressures and timing advance were good. The fellow keeps a record sheet of every pump he does in a notebook and everything was as good or better that the dozen or so other 329's in his book. When i told him the problem he said head and rotor but the test bench said everything was right. Tom
 
Was the Diesel warmed up?

I think that makes the most difference, Diesel gets heated in lines while engine sits.

You can verify this VERY CAREFULLY by cooling off the timing pump before starting.
 
(quoted from post at 14:57:15 10/12/16) You need to change out your fuel shut off solenoid, it's got a problem when it's hot, it won't turn on the fuel.

Hmmm...you know...I've had to change the top-cover solenoids before on older JD engines with Roosa-Master pumps. I bet you are right!
 
Once my Dad had a 53 Chevy pickup that would start cold and then loose spark warm. Old time mechanic hooked his little finger on wire on outside of distributor and pulled it right apart as only couple strands were holding. Your combine is older now than that 63 Chev was in 1965.
Learned right there that cold wires have less resistance. You could jump a new wire direct from battery to solenoid on pump and try a warm start. If that does trick you need new wires or even rig relay by pump.
 
I know the starter from a 2510 fit, but my experience is those are pretty wimpy starters, and you are asking it to now throw over a 6 cylinder.That 329 alone is 62% more engine than a 2510. I still think you MAY have some kind of parasitic load, as mentioned in the tractor talk section. It would take a little work, but it might be worth trying to remove the hydraulic pump belt and the variable sheave belt and try to start it hot. THen you would know it is not the combine if it still wont start.

Our 105 diesel took 2 big batteries to throw her over, even when the weather was warm. Even then, you could tell there was a lot of load there, and it dragged a lot more than a 4020 with the same engine.

I have a 401C (same as 2440) around here that somehow got a gear reduction starter- that thing really has power and will start in about any weather. Something like that would be an improvement.

My experience with a "no start" situation when warm has usually been an electrical issue, a hydraulic charge issue (back to jiggle the wheel), but I have never had the injection pump issue.

Good luck.
 
Mike M: I have the same situation with my 4000. Everything is new but it still smokes. How much did you change the timing and which way, - advance or retard?
 

Normally timing needs to be advanced to correct fluttering/smoking BUT i can't remember exactly which way to rotate pump to advance the timing. I think CW looking at top of IP.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top