Next gen Deeres

Hello Before I ask my question, let me say I'm all JD, tractors,lawn mowers,skid steer. So when JD introduced their next generation tractors were they leading the industry with new innovations or keeping up with trends of the times? If not who was the innovative leader in the early sixties?

Thanks for your opinions Chris
 
John Deere was taking it on the chin in the late 50's from Farmal,, with the announcement of the New gens in 1960 they quickly became the leader
 
New Generation tractors set a new standard across the board. From their introduction no one could match them and thats when they became the leader in the industry and remained there. (just my opinion)
 
I believe this has multiple dimensions so I would like to comment:

1. Clearly Deere made a huge step and impact with the New Generation design. I enjoy reading books and story's about the history of Ag Machinery Companies so I comments are based on my own readings and, as an Engineer and Farm Boy, my own observations of the John Deere Designs.

a. The Deere Management was clearly innovative when they launched the New Generation Program in 1953. They had been content with being #2 and a follower but finally decided they wanted to be #1 and a leader.

b. The secrecy regarding the New Generation Program was absolutely incredible. It is beyond me how they kept this secret given the number of people who worked on it and the number of people that the team had to interface with for sourcing parts, etc.

c. I grew up with Massey Harris (a terrible loss Massey Ferguson took them over.) and Allis Chalmers tractors. My blood was not green but it pretty green now. My own view is anyone can put together a machine, usually un-nessarily complicated. It takes real genius to design and build something that appears simple. I believe John Deere designers and manufacturing did that with the New Generation design and manufacture.

d. You know every manufacturer of that period can point to something truly innovative in their products. The New Generation Designs were innovative and genius in their ability to bring many technical items together into a user friendly, attractive, and reliable package. If you wish to point to something that I understand was unique to Deere was the innovation to come up with a Closed Center Hydraulic Pump/System at a cost point they could put in an Agricultural Tractor. I understand closed center hydraulics were not new, but to do it at the cost point Deere did was.

c. I believe the desire to give the farmer a design that was pre-tested and not tested on the farmer was innovative. It really irritates me the way many manufacturers of the time seemed to put a product out to be tested on the farmer.

I am sure there are other dimensions others could add.

Paul
 
Well I remember reading JD pulled ahead of Farmall in sales with the 30 series 2 cyl. models.
 
YOu are correct here. Farmall's issues with the 460 and 560, combined with Deere's fuel economy put Deere in the sales lead with the last of the 2 cylinders. The NG tractors then advanced the lead significantly, as they should have. Things like the hydraulic system were well advanced over anything else at the time.
 
One of the things that kept Deere in the tractor game in the 1950's was the quality of the products rather than the innovation level. Avoided the IH 460,560 introduction fiasco situation. You have to remember that all row crops got cultivated 2 or more times. Try to find an old timer that did not like a JD 40 front mount cultivator on a 630 JD. But for baling any IH with TA and IPTO beat any two banger six ways from Sunday.
 
I speak from wheatland country and I agree with you. The 2 cylinder was outdated but was reliable and the diesels had unmatched torque and fuel economy. You saw it around here. There were IH W9s and WD9s all over the place. We farmed with them. But the IH models that came after were not near as popular. However, JD Rs through the 830s were all over the place. We farmed with those too back in the day. IH kinda fell behind in the hp race too which JD had correctly guessed would happen. For 2 years the IH 450 had to go up against the JD 720. Granted there are jobs the 450 was a lot better at then the 720 like you mentioned. But for pure drawbar work there was no contest. As a result IH was behind the 8 ball and rushed the 560 into production knowing full well the rear end was not up to the task.
 
I live and farm MT in wheat country. The NG tractor that turned heads around here was the 5010 mostly because of the hp. Good as the 4010 was, a 830 would put it in its place on the drawbar and on the fuel economy. In wheat farming that is what mostly mattered. That's why 4010s weren't popular around here. 4020s were more common as they had a little bit more power and some guys liked the powershift. The 5010 can be described as being severely underpowered but you have to remember when it came out the biggest tractor IH had was the 660. If you had to plow 1,000 acres and a 5010 and 660 were your only choices which one would you take? Its a no brainer. We had a 5010 and 4020 back in the 60s and later a 5020. Today we still have a 5010 and 5020. Most 5010s had 5020 engines installed and that made them a better tractor. At one time you couldn't throw a rock without hitting a 5010/20. Good tractor for the times but the 4 wheel drive tractors most noticeably Versatile soon took over.
 
You know, in the late 50's and early 60's, my grandfather had an MTA and a late A. He also had a 116W baler. And while the live power and smooth engine of the MTA was nice, the A spent a lot of time on the baler. Troubles with the live PTO clutch, and the dangers of the freewheeling TA in low range were strikes against the MTA for baling. You did not have to worry about the freewheeling aspect with a plow behind, but with a baler and a man on the wagon behind, you had better get it into high range before heading down hill!

It's interesting... all the photos we have from that time frame have the A on the baler. And there's another of the MTA pulling loads home.
 
As far as maneuverability and operator comfort Deere led the way.
That being said the 3010,4010, and the 5010 were under-powered.
That was solved with the introduction of the 3020 and 4020.
Case led the way with their remodeling and introduction of a quiet
and clean cab. Deere surpassed that with the 30 series tractors.
While Ford was on the right track with their Select-a-matic
transmission which wouldn't work, Deere produced their powershift
that was nearly bullet proof.
 
I know the New Generation took JD to a new level. But did JD pull ahead of IH or did IH simply fall behind JD because of some poor engineering, marketing and IH management?
 
I think that could be argued either way. But probably some of both.

Deere nudged ahead in the very late 50's with dependable effiecient two cylinders, and some help from IH mismanagement. Most of those steps have been mentioned in posts above- the IH 450 vs 720 JD being an example. Probably a fair match if you compared gas models, but IH had not changed the diesel engine design much since the SUper MD. Add to that issues with the rear end on the 560 that replaced the 450. The 720/730 had the edge in efficiency and dependability.

Then Deere leapfrogged ahead with the 3010/4010... and IH continued on with the 460/560 for another 2.5 to 3 years. The 3010 and 4010 had some issues, but Deere worked to iron them out. And the introduced the 3020 and 4020 about the time the IH 706/806 came on line.
 

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