2030 batteries draining overnight

toplink · Sep 22, 2015

I'm having an issue that I just can't seem to run to ground (no pun). When the tractor sits overnight, or for more than a day or two, the batteries are too weak to turn it over. I can connect the charger to them for a few minutes and it will fire right up. I remove the key after shut down, but I feel there is a drain on the system somewhere. Any ideas?

Tim

Ed NM · Sep 22, 2015

I had a 2440 that did the same thing. Problem was the alternator and or external regulator. Changed to a one wire alternator.

Tx Jim · Sep 22, 2015

My vote is faulty volt reg.

toplink · Sep 22, 2015

That's possible, but the lights burn bright and steady at night, so I dismissed the alternator, but I may yank it and have it bench tested at least.

Thanks

toplink · Sep 22, 2015

It's suspect for sure, but how does it drain the system post shut down?

Thanks

M-MAN · Sep 22, 2015

Please define a few minutes. If the batteries were that weak a few minutes woulden't make hardly any difference in stored battery energy so there's most likely a bad connection somewhere.

toplink · Sep 22, 2015

Literally a few minutes, as in two or three. That's what I'm saying, makes no sense that the batteries are the culprit, because all I have to do is give it a little bump, and away she goes.
Could it be my starter or starter cable?

Thanks

Tx Jim · Sep 22, 2015

(reply to post at 09:22:55 09/22/15)

Another possibility is battery has a dead cell which will deplete battery voltage very quickly when it's not being charged.

Lee B · Sep 22, 2015

Not likely starter unless it's a 24 volt system. Only on those can copper dust in the bush area of the starter combine with grease to make a drain path as those wires are live with juice. Regular starter doesn't see power there until the solenoid is trying to run the starter. What little they do drain isn't an issue due to the short time they are live.

Please define bump a bit better. Is this a bump from a 300 amp, 85 pound, roll around only battery 'charger' or is it a motorcycle trickle charger that a child can hold in their hand held out front? There is bump and there is BUMP. Even a booster capable charger will output 50 amps and that would do exactly as you describe in combination with perhaps a couple of weak cells in the battery system, the little charger will take a day or overnight to get back to starting capacity.

OldCrow51 · Sep 22, 2015

I had the same problem on my 4020 last weekend. You could start it right after shutdown most of the time but wait very long and it wouldn't budge. Put jumper cables on it and it would turn over immediately. Bad cell in one of the batteries. I was running two 6 volts in series and switch to two 12 volts in parrallel.

A bad cell doesn't show up sometimes with a regular volt meter until it is loaded. I've had this happen twice in the last couple of years.

Lee B · Sep 22, 2015

Because the diode that is supposed to keep power from energizing the field when engine is off is shorted and allowing that to happen 24/7. You could disconnect some wires and see if you spot an arcing with engine off, don't forget that the battery connection to the alternator needs all six output diodes to be good too. It can drain here as well as at the voltage regulator in other words, all depending on exact design which I haven't been able to latch onto for lack of hard data (numbers on VR, location of same, make of alternator, etc.) you are not posting.

I'm also suspecting a couple cells are laying down in your battery system what ever it is comprised of. If you mentioned one or 2 batteries and/or the voltage/cell count on them, I missed that part.

Tx Jim · Sep 22, 2015

(quoted from post at 14:31:35 09/22/15) Not likely starter unless it's a 24 volt system. .

To my knowledge JD never built a 2030 with a 24 volt system.

D- · Sep 22, 2015

If it's Motorola it's probably the isolation diode.
Check it with volt meter.
I would check battery cable ends.

toplink · Sep 22, 2015

(quoted from post at 12:31:35 09/22/15) Not likely starter unless it's a 24 volt system. Only on those can copper dust in the bush area of the starter combine with grease to make a drain path as those wires are live with juice. Regular starter doesn't see power there until the solenoid is trying to run the starter. What little they do drain isn't an issue due to the short time they are live.

Please define bump a bit better. Is this a bump from a 300 amp, 85 pound, roll around only battery 'charger' or is it a motorcycle trickle charger that a child can hold in their hand held out front? There is bump and there is BUMP. Even a booster capable charger will output 50 amps and that would do exactly as you describe in combination with perhaps a couple of weak cells in the battery system, the little charger will take a day or overnight to get back to starting capacity.

It is a roll around charger, which I set to 30 amp 12v charge. I have also used a small Schumacher 12v that I can set to 2a, 12a, or 20a. I can use it set to 12a with the same result, although I typically have to leave it on there for 10 minutes or so.

toplink · Sep 22, 2015

(quoted from post at 12:47:09 09/22/15) Because the diode that is supposed to keep power from energizing the field when engine is off is shorted and allowing that to happen 24/7. You could disconnect some wires and see if you spot an arcing with engine off, don't forget that the battery connection to the alternator needs all six output diodes to be good too. It can drain here as well as at the voltage regulator in other words, all depending on exact design which I haven't been able to latch onto for lack of hard data (numbers on VR, location of same, make of alternator, etc.) you are not posting.

I'm also suspecting a couple cells are laying down in your battery system what ever it is comprised of. If you mentioned one or 2 batteries and/or the voltage/cell count on them, I missed that part.

12v utilizing two batteries (12v each) pos-pos/neg-neg

Tx Jim · Sep 23, 2015

I'd suggest to relocate battery ground cable attachment from battery box to engine block or better yet starter mounting bolt/stud

Lee B · Sep 23, 2015

As I suspected, that's a big BUMP then, you are only understating your charging capabilities here and situation is otherwise to be expected for a key off battery drain from possibly a voltage regulator not shutting off with the key. Any charger capable of 10 amps or more will deliver much more to a discharged battery so setting the 15 pound Schumacher to 12a is just a relative meaning sort of like 3/4 power, in 15 minutes I can fully charge a run down battery with my 300 amp roll around. They typically will start out showing 80 amps on the meter and taper off to 30 or 40 after 5 minutes or so. Batteries are warm when done.

Thanks Tx Jim, I have no knowledge of 2030 systems, have limited access/experience with most of the Deere offerings in fact.

So which one of these (if any), 1, 2, 3, or 4, looks like what you gots? Otherwise provide a picture? Any numbers found anywhere are also key to figuring out what to do next, please post anything you can find. I do mean anything as that would be more than I've got to work with right now.
------------------------
1

1
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2

2
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3

3
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4

4
------------------------

Last parts applet diagram (4) shows the infamous motorola isolation diode as part number 11 - this is when you know right off you have a motorola alternator. It also means big dollars to fix them usually, so perhaps a cheap Delco can be retrofitted?

Tx Jim · Sep 23, 2015

(quoted from post at 07:56:26 09/23/15)

Thanks Tx Jim, I have no knowledge of 2030 systems, have limited access/experience with most of the Deere offerings in fact.

Lee
You're welcome. I wasn't trying to be a smart Alec but rather just trying to keep information as correct as possible.
Jim

John Deere D · Sep 23, 2015

When I was in Collage the Instructor made sue we all checked the SPECIFIC GAVITY before we ever uses a hand held meter.
I have seen 24 VOLTS on a hand held meter and yet one cell was less than 1.225 specific gravity. Same with 6 Volts and 12 Volt batteries.

toplink · Sep 23, 2015

Okay, thanks Lee. Sorry for the delay, I was out of town with work today. I'll look at the alternator tomorrow, snap a picture, and see what I have. I believe from memory that it resembles number 3.

My large roll around only has a setting for 30a, 60a, or the 300a start function. I never use this for charging, only the 30a setting. As for my small digital unit, I typically set it to 12a.

Listen, I'm an obvious novice when it comes to trouble shooting electrical issues....they are my Achilles, therefore I truly appreciate the help guys.

Tim

toplink · Sep 24, 2015

Looked at the alternator tonight. The only markings or tag I could find on the unit was Delco Remy in the casting. No tag or any other distinguishing marks.

Tim

Tx Jim · Sep 25, 2015

IIRC 2030 didn't come from factory with a Delco alt.

Lee B · Sep 25, 2015

Ok, so Delco it is - what about the voltage regulator? How it's connected, where it's at, any numbers there? Numbers of wires going in and color of same, and color, numbers of wires going to alternator also helpful. A picture front and back of the Delco will help a lot in determining an easy replacement, even for the regulator which I suspect is the main fault. I would say any Delco can be bolt on replaced by any another Delco if only it were true, but they made those with different footprints too, so some re-mounting is very likely to be needed to pop on a $60 rebuilt si-10 Delco there. Regulators can be had for less than $60 for the Delco you have now - they can be had for $5 for the si-10 if you shop smart. Not enough hard information to help much yet. I will check number (3) to see if it's a Delco though just to cover that base.

Dennis Andres · Sep 26, 2015

I've had a leaking diode in the alternator do this in semi's tractors and cars

buickanddeere · Sep 27, 2015

You can guess wasting time and money.! or you can troubleshoot and find the fault.
Use a multi meter and check for drain current.
Take the batteries to be load tested.
If somebody has mixed and matched different sized and aged batteries. They will fast or slow self discharge.
When in there. Add a new additional HD ground cable from battery neg to a starter mounting bolt. The stater will crank much faster. The factory sheet metal ground conection is terrible .

Lee B · Sep 27, 2015

Might be talking to myself at this point but what I found out was that Deere seemed to offer only Bosch or motorola alternators on the 2030. It now says it's a delco so somebody changed it out once, you can still change it out again.

Tx Jim · Sep 28, 2015

Lee B
I stated on last Friday JD 2030 didn't come from factory with a Delco.

If I was going to change alt brands it darn sure wouldn't be to a Motorola or Bosch. I'd pick Nippodenso if wanting to toss the Delco.

toplink · Sep 28, 2015

Thanks Lee and Jim, I apologize for the gaps in the replies.
The alternator and the wiring were painted Green, but I will do a little scraping and tracing on the wiring and the regulator. I too thought it was odd, and I was a bit surprised to see Delco on the back. Pretty much says non-standard. I really appreciate the input, but being that the tractor is at our family farm, and I'm not everyday, the replies will be spotty. I appreciate your patience.

Tim

toplink · Nov 22, 2015

(quoted from post at 03:50:54 09/28/15)
Lee B
I stated on last Friday JD 2030 didn't come from factory with a Delco.

If I was going to change alt brands it darn sure wouldn't be to a Motorola or Bosch. I'd pick Nippodenso if wanting to toss the Delco.

Okay Lee and Jim,

So, here is what I've accomplished thus far on the voltage issue. I pulled the batteries out and had them tested, cycled, then slow charged to max capacity and retested to be A OK.

I pulled the Delco alternator off and had it bench tested (this was not a very thorough test) at the local auto parts house and it failed immediately. I can only surmise that the regulator is internal since since is an automotive type alternator.

The other evening while trying to finish up a section I was forced to attempt the lights, which began dim and quickly went a way totally, so the alternator was definitely not charging.

My biggest question at this point is what alternator to replace it with...Motorola reman, or Bosch reman? They are truly costly through Deere ($246 reman Motorola type/$350 reman Bosch type), but I'm hoping to find a reman unit for a little less.

Any suggestions on which type would work best.....I must also add that the serial tag was missing when we purchased the tractor from a local Deere dealer used, so that's killing me on the parts search.

Thank you very much to all who have taken their time to try and help me with this!

Tim

Tx Jim · Nov 22, 2015

I think you'll find out that a Delco replacement alt will be your cheapest repair. Why not have your old Delco alt repaired?

toplink · Nov 22, 2015

Jim,
I believe my father had it repaired before, and that may be my cheapest route, but the entire electrical seems to be a stew of shade tree wiring. I feel like if I choose to keep the tractor, and preserve/repair it that the electrical system needs a proper face lift. I'm likely out of my depth with it, but my local tractor guy just doesn't see the value in doing things factory style. He is more of a "put it back together so you can keep plowing" type of guy. He's knowledgeable, but lazy. The local Deere dealer is lacking in guys who truly know these old tractors, and their rates are steep.

So, I'm left with trying to put the tractor back together proper. Attempting it without the Grail serial number, and doing it on a modest budget.

I went back and read your suggestion on the nippondenzo suggestion, and I'm sure it's sound advice, but how is the cost next to the JD factory types, and what is it you dislike about the Bosch and Motorola units?

Thanks very much for the help

Tim

Tx Jim · Nov 22, 2015

I think the fact that Delco alt are more widely used makes their repair parts cheaper. I don't dislike Bosch alt but Motorola's seem more to repair.

toplink · Nov 22, 2015

(quoted from post at 11:51:31 11/22/15)
I think the fact that Delco alt are more widely used makes their repair parts cheaper. I don't dislike Bosch alt but Motorola's seem more to repair.

How about the before mentioned Nippondenzo? I can't seem to find a way to cross reference the proper one from the JD part numbers.

Thanks in advance,

Tim

Tx Jim · Nov 22, 2015

Nippodenso alt & starters are very good. My 4255 with 11,4000+ hrs has a Denso starter & alt. I think alt has had one set of brushes installed since I bought the tractor. I'll bet this Denso alt will fit your tractor

toplink · Nov 22, 2015

Got it Jim, thank you sir.

Tim

Tx Jim · Nov 23, 2015

You're Welcome,Jim

2030 batteries draining overnight

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