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404 to 466 swap Progress and Questions

N

newgenjdcollector

Member
Finally back on my latest project. Made some good progress this weekend. Pics below show about 1.5 days of work. Got the 404 pulled out of the 4620. Got the front pulleys swapped and got the 404 water pump installed on the 466. Question I have is that on the 404 motor, the water pump has a port on the lower right side that connects to a line feeding the oil cooler. However, when we installed the 404 water pump on the 466, there is nothing on the right side of the motor. Need some advise on where to plumb that. Next on the list is to swap the flywheels and some machine work to the frame rails to accept the different bolt pattern. Is there anything on the ps clutch mechanism a guy should inspect/replace while it is all torn apart?



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I cant help you with the technical things, but curious is that a power shift, I have a synchro range,serial number 013195R, and we got the same rear tires.
 
It's a 72 powershift. I'll check the s/n tomorrow. It came with 38s but I swapped them for 42s. Has a much better stance now.

We also made an interesting discover today when we opened it up. The trans disconnect in the bell housing wasn't hooked up. You can kinda see this in the last pic. Somebody removed all the related parts inside and did away with it. It actually helps me because once the sound-gard goes on, there won't be a way to use it anyhow.
 
(quoted from post at 21:33:55 09/20/15) It's a 72 powershift. I'll check the s/n tomorrow. It came with 38s but I swapped them for 42s. Has a much better stance now.

The trans disconnect in the bell housing wasn't hooked up. You can kinda see this in the last pic. Somebody removed all the related parts inside and did away with it. .
Click to expand...

Back when I was a JD dealer service manager I remember several field calls on powersift trans tractors being performed because someone moved disconnect lever and tractor wouldn't move when put in gear.
 
(quoted from post at 19:19:18 09/20/15) I cant help you with the technical things, but curious is that a power shift, I have a synchro range,serial number 013195R, and we got the same rear tires.
Click to expand...

Got the s/n it's 015802R.
 
The 466 has the oil cooler water supply taking care of directly from inside of the block. It is like a “in series” design, in opposition with the older 404’s that have the oil cooler water circuit installed in parallel with engine and head. You should plug the pump.
I like the idea of a 4620PS with a 466 , but I would definitely not install a SGCab on it.
The open cab 4620 with the shifter on the dash are just way nicer to drive than the SG tractor, IMO, also easier to climb on with KN steps. I guess that with a lot of insulation material under the floor, on the dash, on the canopy, on rockshaft covers, they can be made quieter tractors even with an open platform.
I would understand someone putting a SG on a 5020 or 6030, since JD never did it, but the 4620 with SG existed and was called the 4630. But I guess this is your money, you do what you want. I am sure it would look good with your awesome crafting capalities!
With a 466, I would try to get a big air stack (same than 6030) and air filter from a 7020 with the 466, that would make it look awesome, and somewhat “factory”. A big cutout has to be made on the hood (like on 7020’s) , but you can then sell your hood for a lot of money, and buy a 7020 hood for cheap. I am pretty sure that would work. Do you think it is a good idea?
 
Thanks for the input. I thought about plugging it off but didn't know if that was a no no or not.

As for the rest of the engine parts, we are installing the 404 intake, turbo, exhaust, intercooler and all that stuff onto the 466. These are direct bolt-on parts and will allow everything to work with the stock hood too. I have several 4520/4620 open station tractors and just wanted to do something different, usable and cool. You may not have seen my 6030 sound-gard, but right now it is an only child and needs a sibling. When I get done with the 4620 you will be amazed and probably change your mind about the cab.

The cab we are using is from a 4840, so hooking up the shifter should be far easier than it was on the 6030. Everything else should be easier as well. I figure I did the hardest one possible so this one shouldn't be as bad.
 
I've got 2 4020 ps's, early 1 has the complete disconnect, late 1 doesn't have any of the linkage, just plastic plugs in the frame where it s'posed to be.
 
Got the 466 bolted on. Below are a few more pics. Haven't had much time lately to work on it lately. I sent the frame rails out to get some machine work done for the larger bolt pattern. The flywheel and water pump bolted on nice, but the alternator bracket is not lining up right. The bracket off the 404 is too far in and the bracket for the 466 is too far out and so high that the belts are too small to fit around all the pulleys. So I'm gonna use the 404 bracket and have the holes slotted in it so I can line it up better. I magnaged to get the exhaust on today with what little time I had. I can see that my turbo supply line is a bit too short, so I need to get a longer one. Need to find a source for a custom braided line like the stock one is. Might be nicer than a standard hydraulic hose. Overall no major snags to speak of so far. The throttle linkage from the tractor and from the engine are not in alingment but I won't worry about that since the cab should take care of that. Last pic shows the 404D that will be going in my 105 soon.


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Got the new pump bolted on. This is one of the larger capacity pumps you can get. Dimensionally, I don't measure any differences so I'm confident it will slide into the front end cavity. The main difference I see is that it has two pressure ports on the right side and they are larger in diameter than the stock pump. This actually benefits me due to wanting to hook up the PFD. The downside is that the elbow fitting from the old pump will not work. I ordered a larger elbow fitting with a reducer on the end, so anxious to see if this work.

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No, the 105 engine is set up just like the 4020 engine and fits in with no issues at all...no turbo or inter-cooler
 
(quoted from post at 15:20:13 10/08/15) No, the 105 engine is set up just like the 4020 engine and fits in with no issues at all...no turbo or inter-cooler
Click to expand...

It actually crossed my mind to have it turbo/intercooled. Thought that might be cool. But with the cover that is on top of the engine, it would take some fabrication to make the exhaust work right. The non turbo exhaust would be much easier.
 
(quoted from post at 16:52:21 10/08/15)
(quoted from post at 15:20:13 10/08/15) No, the 105 engine is set up just like the 4020 engine and fits in with no issues at all...no turbo or inter-cooler
Click to expand...

It actually crossed my mind to have it turbo/intercooled. Thought that might be cool. But with the cover that is on top of the engine, it would take some fabrication to make the exhaust work right. The non turbo exhaust would be much easier.
Click to expand...

Come on, you have to turbo/intercool it. That bend piece of sheetmetal over the engine shouldn't be a challenge. You put a Sound Guard cab on a 6030. LOL
 
Come on, you have to turbo/intercool it. That bend piece of sheetmetal over the engine shouldn't be a challenge. You put a Sound Guard cab on a 6030. LOL
Click to expand...



I hear ya. I'll try to find a way. Sure would sound better too.
 
Couple tiny issues I have run into while swapping the motors. First, neither of the alternator brackets are lining up perfect. The 4840 alternator bracket is too far forward and sits so high that the belts will not go over the pulleys. The 404 bracket is lower but still too far forward. So I ended up taking the 404 bracket to a machine shop and having the holes slotted. Also had to cut a bit of a notch in it so it would clear the pump by the injector lines. Works great, except getting the rear bolt in and out behind that pump is nearly impossible.

Second thing is that the neither of the turbo supply lines were long enough to reach. Couldn't find anyone who could make this line. Finally after about 5 stops locally and a couple more calls to the big city, I found a place called Indianapolis Spring. They made me a custom braided turbo supply line to the length I needed (pic below). So big shout out to them for making this for me. If anyone needs a specialy line, give these guys a call.



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Where are you with that project? I hope it looks as good as your 5020!

I wonder if someone would try the opposite, meaning, converting a 4650 or 4850 with MFWD and 15PS transmission into a tractor that looks like a 4620, open station and everything. I think that will look pretty awesome! Would require some welding on the clutch casting at the dash support to make it looks like the 4620, but I guess it can be done! :D
 
(quoted from post at 20:05:21 01/11/16) Where are you with that project? I hope it looks as good as your 5020!

I wonder if someone would try the opposite, meaning, converting a 4650 or 4850 with MFWD and 15PS transmission into a tractor that looks like a 4620, open station and everything. I think that will look pretty awesome! Would require some welding on the clutch casting at the dash support to make it looks like the 4620, but I guess it can be done! :D
Click to expand...

Got the motor swap complete and changed to a larger hyd pump. You can see it running here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VNeEC-Sc6E


Friday I took the tractor and a set of 50 series mfd fenders to my welder guy to have mounted. Most ppl take them off but I think they will look killer on there. It's been so cold that I haven't had much time to work on it. My mother died just before christmas so it has been a bit depressing and have temporarily lost motivation to do anything right now. Figured it would be better in his shop getting something done instead of in mine getting nothing done.


I have seen a few open station 40 and 50 and 55 series tractors. I found one for sale online awhile back and if I ever get the chance or the money for my next project, I'd like to build one real close to this (only better :lol: )

I can tell it was originally a cab tractor not an open station. But it looks good especially the contrast of the black around the operator vs all green and I like the 2 post rops vs the 4 post. Mine would def be a powershift.



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I can tell it was originally a cab tractor not an open station. But it looks good and I like the 2 post rops vs the 4 post. Mine would def be a powershift.
 
So would you make it like a 4620, with the powershift lever on the dash, and everything?

Where can I find a seat similar to the one of the 4440? Shoup has an updated seat, but it does not have folded up armrest I think.
 
Sorry for the loss of your mother. I hope motivation and happiness came back. Your 4620 runs good with the big 466! It looks exactly like "Gunner" 4520 now, except for the HFWD!
 

Getting ready to start my p pump 466 swap into my 4620. I saw your frame rails turned out great! I was curious if you just took the machine shop the set of frame rails and a template from the block or just how you accomplished that.
 

There are three families in the closed circuit pump line. The scrawny 1000 with 0.7 and 1.4cu" displacement.
The most common, the 2000 series with 2.4cu"/23gpm, 3cu"/ 30gpm optional charge pump, 4cu"/39gpm optional charge pump, double row 16 piston 6cu"/65gpm and the doble row 16 piston 8cu"/80gpm. Note there is rated and then there is real world flow.
The 3000 series also range from 2.4cu" to 8cu".
The larger ports should flow more if upstream and down stream pipe work is not the restriction.
TimS would be the man to ask about the charge pump option etc. Could be what the HFWD needs ?
 
(quoted from post at 23:29:13 05/01/16)
Getting ready to start my p pump 466 swap into my 4620. I saw your frame rails turned out great! I was curious if you just took the machine shop the set of frame rails and a template from the block or just how you accomplished that.
Click to expand...

I did take them to a machine shop. I didn't make a temple. Thought about it but my 4250 has a loader so that was all covered up. What I did was take a bolt and socket with me. Told the machinest that after he drilled the holes out that the outer radius needs to be large enough to clear my socket. He did the rest. It could stand for more curvature in the corners but it's done and it works. For a hundred bux for both, I couldn't complain a bit. The one nice thing is that the front most upper hole in the 4-bolt pattern is the same on both motors. So you can meauser the other 3 off that to get the larger pattern.

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That's great, what did he have to go off of for the other 3 holes?

All my friends are telling me to stay with an older 466 so I won't have to modify the rails. But what fun is that!
 
(quoted from post at 07:19:25 05/02/16)
That's great, what did he have to go off of for the other 3 holes?

All my friends are telling me to stay with an older 466 so I won't have to modify the rails. But what fun is that!
Click to expand...

Yes I am not one to take the easy way. Thought I had measurements but not finding them. Only thing I can tell you is measure twice, drill once.
 
(quoted from post at 08:37:44 05/02/16)
(quoted from post at 07:05:14 05/02/16)
There are three families in the closed circuit pump line.
Click to expand...

b&d
JDPlowboy42 is referring to replacing injection not hydraulic pump. :lol:
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What is the thingamajig in the photos ? Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: 404 to 466 swap Progress and Questions
 
There is a combine hydraulic assisst on ebay to convert a 4620 just like yours.
I tauhgt about it, but I do not have the time...
 
(quoted from post at 20:16:10 05/02/16)
(quoted from post at 08:37:44 05/02/16)
(quoted from post at 07:05:14 05/02/16)
There are three families in the closed circuit pump line.
Click to expand...

b&d
JDPlowboy42 is referring to replacing injection not hydraulic pump. :lol:
Click to expand...

What is the thingamajig in the photos ? Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: 404 to 466 swap Progress and Questions
Click to expand...


What thingamajig are you referring to? Which pic?
 
(quoted from post at 18:28:56 05/03/16)
The front hydraulic pump images.
Click to expand...

That's the high output hydraulic pump I installed. Showing you that the original elbow from the old pump is much smaller diameter than the hole in the new pump. I had to make a special fitting just to connect it.
 
(quoted from post at 22:05:21 05/03/16)
(quoted from post at 18:28:56 05/03/16)
The front hydraulic pump images.
Click to expand...

That's the high output hydraulic pump I installed. Showing you that the original elbow from the old pump is much smaller diameter than the hole in the new pump. I had to make a special fitting just to connect it.
Click to expand...

Txjim thought the conversation was injection pumps when the topic was hydraulic .
 
I was thinking about your 7520 SG2 cab project, and made me think of another idea.

What about a 4WD deere Powershift? Would it be possible to put a 15 speed PS rear end from a 4955 or 4650, and somehow connect the MFWD drive to the front wheels?? They might be major problems, but those transmission have a front output shaft, IPTO, etc, and the back end "look" the same than the 7520 transmission, which is the 4620-4630 one.
End then you put that back on the 7520 with factory cab, having the oldest look but features only the very late tractors have. That woul make a great 4WD tractor for grain cart!
 
Any updates, I just love watching these projects come together. Your 6030 is a true restomod tractor and your 4620 will be there with it.
 
(quoted from post at 12:43:54 12/27/16) Any updates, I just love watching these projects come together. Your 6030 is a true restomod tractor and your 4620 will be there with it.
Click to expand...

I can update you, but I am not going to share pics until it is all finished. I did get the cab mounted though. The shift cables hooked up perfect. I used a bracket off a 4840 and it bolted right in place. Although I did decide to have new cables made as the old ones were rusty and sticking more that I wanted. The clutch pedal hooked up super easy. Just had to remove all the 4620 linkage off the clutch valve shaft and install the 4840 arm and spring. I also got the pto hooked up to the dash. It was a bit more work since the valve is on the inside of the dash instead of the outside, but I managed. All the levers in the cab are functional. Even the hydraulic seat works. Thanks to Tim for rebuilding my seat valve awhile back.

I have a small amount of fabrication left and I need to figure out what to do with the steering lines on the left side to dress them up a little better. The tractor is currently at my welder's shop for a few things. It's been there 2 months already and he has yet to touch it so it has me a bit worried when i will get it back. I am still hoping to have it done in time for rantoul this year but the days are passing and nothing is getting done. I was hoping to be ready to paint by march but I don't know. So much to do, so little time.
 
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