Metal Pieces Found In Transmission!!!

Kick

Member
I know I'm probably not supposed to double post...but I decided to start a new topic on my latest problem. This is a carry over from my post about the sump screen debris in my JD 4630. Here goes:
The PTO seal was leaking. Figured this would be a good time to change it, since the oil is drained. I took out the six bolts holding the bearing housing on, and popped out the seal. Removed the snap ring, and pulled the bearing housing off the tractor. When I did, some pieces of metal, and what looks like bearing rollers, fell out from the transmission case!! I immediately got this huge, sinking feeling. What the heck is wrong now? I got a flashlight, and looked into the case around the PTO shaft, and then peered in the sump screen port, and found nothing. Not a single other piece of metal. I looked in the bucket I drained the last of the oil into, when I pulled out the sump screen, no chunks of metal or bearing parts. Does anybody recognize what these pieces could be from?? Is there any chance they could be leftover from a previous repair, and just washed to the back over time? Or is something coming apart now??

Just so you know, I used this tractor to plant 250 acres of soybeans this spring, and worked some ground with it, too. The guy I bought it from, has had it at least 6-7 years, farmed 350 acres with it, and has never had problems with the rear end, or had it apart. He just had engine troubles. I'm really hoping someone can help me identify the parts, and what they might be from!. Any knowledge and expertise' would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!! By the way, the quarter was NOT in there!

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I think you said this is a quad or sycro range,,and these parts look like the thrust bearing for the PTO operating piston..
 
Hey Tim S. Yes, the tractor is an early model (1973) with Synchro Range transmission. Bob seemed to think the same thing about it being the clutch thrust bearing. Is it possible these parts could have made it all the way to the back of the tractor? Would the tractor still be functioning properly, like it is now, without these parts in working order?
 
Yes and yes,,they could get back there but they normally fall into the belly of the PTO drive gear housing, that big bulge under the front of the trans case,,there is a plug there that will drain another gallon or so check and see what you find there, my guess is more of the bearing, it sounds like you haven't been using the PTO so you wouldn't know if it was slipping...
 
Here are some pics..the circled parts are PTO, the under lined are trans clutch,, they are similar in looks, one is larger..
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Thanks for the help, Tim! My tractor is BEFORE the serial # break, so I have the earlier clutch housing without a drain plug. Also, I have never used the PTO on this tractor, and I'd be willing to bet the previous owner didn't either. Is it safe to keep running the tractor, as long as I don't use the PTO? Is this a common failure? What might the causes be? How should I proceed??

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I guess I have never seen one with out the plug...I would run it ,,knowing you will be looking inside in the future,,at that time a new clutch ,seals and rear main seal should be in the plan..consider doing it when you don't need it of course..check with use at that time for a better parts beak down..
 
Kick, if the bearing parts ARE from the PTO engaging thrust bearing and you NEVER EVER used the PTO, there would be no problems, since the PTO operating mechanism is withdrawn back from the PTO clutch fingers while it is disengaged.

However, to me, those parts look more like parts from the main/transmission clutch operating mechanism.

These clutch work OPPOSITE of convention clutches in that the "throw out" bearings are literally "throw in" bearings because when your depress the foot clutch to stop, the bearing backs away from the pressure plate fingers, rather the pressing on them like happens with a typical clutch.

When you release the clutch pedal to engage the clutch, the bearing is forced AGAINST the finger to apply the clutch. So the bearings run all the time, under load, during normal operation. (Of course, it's a "wet clutch" and the bearings are well lubed.)

So if the pieces would happen to be from a bad main clutch apply bearing that has NOT been replaced, the pressure plate fingers would quickly get chewed off.

And it seems unlikely that is what's happening, so the pieces are either parts from a previously repaired problem or NOT from that clutch area.
 
Yes, Bob I was kinda thinking the same thing,,no one knows any history on it,,and if it was the clutch bearing things would have been getting worse by now...if he is depending on it ,,it should be split and inspected on his own terms,,not keeling over at the wrong end of the field...
 
Could still be junk from previous repair.
If you have been using it I would think you would be having problems.
If that is the bearing for trans clutch it is engaged all the time til
pedal is pushed.
Engage the pto to see how it works. If it's torn up you cant hurt it any more.
 
Thanks for all the help, guys! Sorry I haven't responded sooner. Was out of town for a long, holiday weekend. I guess what I'm going to do is put the PTO seal back in, new filter, and a fresh fill up of JD Hy Gard. Once all back together, I will test out the PTO, and see if there are any problems with it it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that these parts ARE from a previous repair?!? I really think if it was the main clutch operating system, that I would have had problems when I was using it heavily this spring. If the PTO has problems, then I will think about splitting the tractor when I have time over the winter. Does this sound like a logical approach?? Thanks again for the help!
 
Update: I put it all back together, filled it with Hy-Gard, and everything INCLUDING the PTO works fine! I haven't tried it with any load on the PTO, but when engaging it, it works the way it should, and doesn't make any noises! Thinking about taking it to my local shop and having it dynoed. That would tell me where I'm at with horsepower, as well as possible PTO problems under load. Maybe I DID get lucky, and the parts were in there from a previous repair?!? Thanks for all the help, guys!
 

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