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John Deere 300B loader starting issues

S

sgoods426

Member
This message is a reply to an archived post by sgoods426 on December 03, 2014 at 13:12:39.
The original subject was "John Deere 300B loader starting issues".

Hey all,

Just wanted to give a quick update... I got the destroking valve to function, and the snow has finally melted here in CT, and
now there is no sign of life in the tractor.

The battery is new and full charged, it has new zero gauge terminal wire with the negative going right to the engine block. It
also has fresh fuel in it.

There isnt a single sign of life, not even a little puff of smoke. I pulled all three injectors, cleaned and tested them and
they all work well. I even tried a little shot of ether and and got absolutely nothing. Not a cough, puff, or bark. Nothing.
It does appear to have a lot of blow by. But it has always had that.

I just dont understand how it ran fine when it was parked and now it is dead.
 
Have little forest creatures packed the intake or exhaust tight?
DO NOT USE ETHER . If somebody already has there maybe broken pistons and broken rings in there.
All three injectors spray fuel?
Anybody ever set the valve lash?
Do you have the clutch pushed while cranking?
 
I took everything apart to look for rats nest and it is all clean. I've tried cranking the engine with and without the clutch. I
pulled all three injectors and hooked them up outside of the head and they spray a nice even pattern of fuel.

I'm thinking either cracked piston and or rings. However i would have had to crack the piston/rings on all three cylinders
because it's not showing any signs of combustion. Or it jumped timing.

I also pulled the valve cover and all the lifters and rockers appear to be in good shape and none are way out of tolerance.
 
check the compression if the injectors are spraying and TIMED right as fast as it's turning if it's got compression it should start,i wonder if it's a stuck or bent valves because it was running when parked and now appears to have low compression,as for ether I know there are circumstances it should not be used,and using excessive amounts CAN cause damage,but it's not a DEATH sentence to an engine,i can show you and old ford backhoe that's had enough ether shot to it to start the Queen Mary, it finally got to running so poorly they rebuild the pump and it will fire right up without any ether now and for it's age it still don't use much oil, that's not the only one i know of that's had it's share of ether.
 
Yes, the selinoid is functioning. I took it out and tested it, and I can hear it click inside of the pump as well.
 
(quoted from post at 10:57:08 04/07/15)
(quoted from post at 08:04:24 04/07/15) Too much blow-by.
Click to expand...

Forgive my ignorance, but is blow-by a sign of bad piston rings? Or is a exhaust/intake valve issue?
Click to expand...

Weak piston rings. Intake valve leakage maybe but I think leaking valves would cause a misfire.
 

I wonder if she had rain or melt water inside and froze or at least rusted the valves open?
A compression check . Do the valves travel "normal" if pushed down by hand? Set the valve lash.
 
(quoted from post at 20:18:50 04/07/15)
I wonder if she had rain or melt water inside and froze or at least rusted the valves open?
A compression check . Do the valves travel "normal" if pushed down by hand? Set the valve lash.
Click to expand...

I did pull the valve cover and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I'm going to pick up a compression tester tonight and see what happens.
 
Pick up the compression testing kit today, and I'll see what it says. Correct me if I'm wrong but, even 300 PSI should be enough to get it fired up?
 
according to deere it should be 350 psi hot engine ,injectors removed, I assume their referring to a new engine,if you had 300 cold and you shot it with ether I should have started
 
(quoted from post at 20:21:30 04/08/15) according to deere it should be 350 psi hot engine ,injectors removed, I assume their referring to a new engine,if you had 300 cold and you shot it with ether I should have started
Click to expand...

I ran the compression check today, and assuming my gauge is correct (it is brand new) all three cylinders were way low. Cylinder 1 was 147psi. Cylinder 2 was 19 psi. And cylinder 3 was 152 psi. I then pulled the head and was surprised to find no scratching or scoring on the cylinder walls. So I'm guessing either blown head gasket and or problems with the valves. The head did have a lot of carbon build up. Maybe the carbon built up in the valve seats.

So the question of the day... Do I do a full in frame rebuild with Pistons, rings, bearings, sleeves and gaskets. Or should I just clean up the head and throw on a new head gasket.

Any recommendation as to where I can get parts?

Thanks,
Sean
 
(quoted from post at 20:21:30 04/08/15) according to deere it should be 350 psi hot engine ,injectors removed, I assume their referring to a new engine,if you had 300 cold and you shot it with ether I should have started
Click to expand...

I ran the compression check today, and assuming my gauge is correct (it is brand new) all three cylinders were way low. Cylinder 1 was 147psi. Cylinder 2 was 19 psi. And cylinder 3 was 152 psi. I then pulled the head and was surprised to find no scratching or scoring on the cylinder walls. So I'm guessing either blown head gasket and or problems with the valves. The head did have a lot of carbon build up. Maybe the carbon built up in the valve seats.

So the question of the day... Do I do a full in frame rebuild with Pistons, rings, bearings, sleeves and gaskets. Or should I just clean up the head and throw on a new head gasket.

Any recommendation as to where I can get parts?

Thanks,
Sean
 
did you check the valve timing before removing the head? not common but it could be off for various reasons,if you haven't removed the manifolds sit the head on two blocks of wood one at each end then pour some diesel fuel into the exhaust check under the head for leaks if none do the same on the intake if any of the valves aren't seating you will see the leak,if you've remove the manifolds just lay it on it's edge, be sure to clean all the fuel out before reinstalling the head,with no more compression than your gage was indicating if you were get a good reading there has to be a valve timing problem,some of the valves can't be seating or the compression rings are broken.
 
(quoted from post at 10:51:41 04/12/15) did you check the valve timing before removing the head? not common but it could be off for various reasons,if you haven't removed the manifolds sit the head on two blocks of wood one at each end then pour some diesel fuel into the exhaust check under the head for leaks if none do the same on the intake if any of the valves aren't seating you will see the leak,if you've remove the manifolds just lay it on it's edge, be sure to clean all the fuel out before reinstalling the head,with no more compression than your gage was indicating if you were get a good reading there has to be a valve timing problem,some of the valves can't be seating or the compression rings are broken.
Click to expand...

I gave the head a good bath in the parts washer. I will try your suggestion with the diesel in the intake and exhaust runners. Inhabe a feeling the is carbon and or rust built up in the valve seats. I also think I willnjust go ahead and do a full rebuild. The machine has 7500 hours on it. I'm sure it's a little tired
 
Where might I find a serial number for the engine? I am trying to order the kit, but there are 3 kits available and the company needs a serial number.

thanks,
Sean
 
(quoted from post at 14:24:34 04/14/15) Where might I find a serial number for the engine? I am trying to order the kit, but there are 3 kits available and the company needs a serial number.

thanks,
Sean
Click to expand...

Either one of these high compression kits depending if the pistons are spray cooled. I would assume a non turbo application has no need of spray cooling.

PISTON LINER KIT
(ENGINES WITHOUT PISTON SPRAY COOLING)
(164 CU. IN. (ENGINE)
(HIGH PISTONS)
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
1 AR55759 PISTON RING KIT 1
2 AR87736 PISTON 1
3 R116463 CYLINDER LINER 1
4 AR71618 KIT 1
5 RE53322 PISTON-LINER KIT 1

PISTON LINER KIT
(ENGINES WITH PISTON SPRAY COOLING)
(164 CU.IN.ENGINE)
(HIGH PISTONS)
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
1 AR55759 PISTON RING KIT 1
2 AR87736 PISTON 1
3 T32343 CYLINDER LINER 1
4 AR71618 KIT 1
5 AR90550 PISTON-LINER KIT 1
 
Anybody know the head bolt torque specs for this motor? I think it is 95 ft/lbs foe the diesel but I'm not 100% sure
 
(quoted from post at 11:48:20 04/18/15) Anybody know the head bolt torque specs for this motor? I think it is 95 ft/lbs foe the diesel but I'm not 100% sure
Click to expand...

Some of those head bolts and fasteners should not be re-used.
The nice folks at 1-800-522-7448 have real JD operator's and service manuals on CD and hard copy.
There is a long list of clearances and specs to check during assembly.
 
Here's an update folks....

I removed the head and cleaned it up, lapped the valves and gave it a good inspection. Replaced the head gasket and threw the head back on the machine.

I saw a significant increase in compression: cylinder 1= 300 psi, cylinder two was 150 psi and cylinder 3 was 250 psi. Obviously not enough to make the engine fire.

So todays mission was to drop the oil pan and pop out the pistons and sleeves. Little did I know that there was a gallon of coolant hiding inside of the block surrounding the sleeves. (yes I did drain it) So needless to say, I got a drenched with coolant all over my head.

Anyhow, it turns out that the top compression rings of all three cylinders were SHATTERED. Each ring was broken into at least 4 pieces. I found it very odd that it didn't scratch the heck out of the cylinder walls. Piston #2 actually had a hole melted into it. (it was the cylinder with the lowest compression) :roll:

So long story short, its time for a full rebuild. I have sources the parts from http://www.engineking.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_3_17&products_id=637&zenid=0c7a192b1c410ce5858dcfa580f564c6 They are a local operation and can have the parts on my doorstep in two days.

They did however ask for the serial number. the tag on the engine block reads, TYPE: 3152DT05 and SERIAL 26850T. Does anyone know how to decode this?

Thanks,
Sean
 

Find who sprayed ether into the engine instead of using a block heater and front pump destroker. Then kick the person in the groin several times. They smashed your tractor's engine to bits.
This would be the time for a proper machine shop valve & seat regrind on the head. Then plane the head to restore valve head height.
 
(quoted from post at 20:47:44 04/26/15)

They did however ask for the serial number. the tag on the engine block reads, TYPE: 3152DT05 and SERIAL 26850T. Does anyone know how to decode this?

Thanks,
Sean
Click to expand...

Engine is a 3 cylinder 152 CID Cylinder liner from JD would be part number AR51902 or from A&I dealer would be A-AR51902

According to 300B parts catalog engine should be a 164 CID
 
(quoted from post at 03:49:03 04/27/15)
(quoted from post at 20:47:44 04/26/15)

They did however ask for the serial number. the tag on the engine block reads, TYPE: 3152DT05 and SERIAL 26850T. Does anyone know how to decode this?

Thanks,
Sean
Click to expand...

Engine is a 3 cylinder 152 CID Cylinder liner from JD would be part number AR51902 or from A&I dealer would be A-AR51902

According to 300B parts catalog engine should be a 164 CID
Click to expand...


I noticed the same thing. That is what is confusing me. There is only the remnants of a sticker on the loader frame that says 300B. I suppose for the purpose of en engine rebuild it only matters what the engine serial number says...
 
Engine must have previously been swapped out.Here's a kit from this website(YT) that should fit.
mvphoto19989.png
 
(quoted from post at 04:38:09 04/28/15) Engine must have previously been swapped out.Here's a kit from this website(YT) that should fit.
mvphoto19989.png
Click to expand...

Also just realized I wrote down the engine serial number down incorrectly.

serial is 268580T.

And found the identification tag on the frame

Type 300-b
Serial 183492t
 
(quoted from post at 18:47:44 04/26/15) Here's an update folks....

I removed the head and cleaned it up, lapped the valves and gave it a good inspection. Replaced the head gasket and threw the head back on the machine.

I saw a significant increase in compression: cylinder 1= 300 psi, cylinder two was 150 psi and cylinder 3 was 250 psi. Obviously not enough to make the engine fire.

So todays mission was to drop the oil pan and pop out the pistons and sleeves. Little did I know that there was a gallon of coolant hiding inside of the block surrounding the sleeves. (yes I did drain it) So needless to say, I got a drenched with coolant all over my head.

Anyhow, it turns out that the top compression rings of all three cylinders were SHATTERED. Each ring was broken into at least 4 pieces. I found it very odd that it didn't scratch the heck out of the cylinder walls. Piston #2 actually had a hole melted into it. (it was the cylinder with the lowest compression) :roll:

So long story short, its time for a full rebuild. I have sources the parts from http://www.engineking.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_3_17&products_id=637&zenid=0c7a192b1c410ce5858dcfa580f564c6 They are a local operation and can have the parts on my doorstep in two days.

They did however ask for the serial number. the tag on the engine block reads, TYPE: 3152DT05 and SERIAL 26850T. Does anyone know how to decode this?

Thanks,
Sean
Click to expand...

Sean, I know this is an old post. If you are still on the board, I;d like to ask how much a problem if any, was it to remove the oil pan. Was all ya had to remove was the 9 bolts on each side of the pan and the 2 large bolts at the rear of the pan?
I bought a 300B in the exact shape perdickerment yours was in.
 
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