Update on 4020 WFE

Until someone figures out if the front end is going to get replaces or repaired, I started on figuring out what is wrong with the old one. I noticed that the right front tire's caster was way off and the tires were wearing badly. The caster came back when I jacked the tractor up, so that is sag in the tubes. The tractor had about 5" of toe out, no wonder the tires were peeling. It had the wheel dropped in a whole about a year ago, and had several things on the right wheel replaced. I did not do the work, but was assured the toe in was set. It looks to me that either the tie rod arm or spindle is twisted. I believe the spindle was replaced, so that leaves the arm.

Has anyone seen these twist?

I've seen twisted spindles. I've also read about aftermarket spindles being built wrong.

David, this may or may not be your trouble, but with that much toe-out is it possible the arm was put on the wrong spline? Might be something to rule out. Mike

David,

I know what you are talking about. My factory front allows some sag. If you stand out front you can notice it. If you have the toe in adjusted it will drive better and will wear better. When I got my tractor it had 2" of toe in (tires had normal wear patterns and were matched) and I reset it to 1" or something, it started scraping off on of the front tires on the road and ate up the inside of the tires. I tried a variety of things to keep the sag out of the tubes (look inside the at the tube ends by the steering arm and they will be angled, not in a straight line). I gave up after a while and let it eat the tires while I found a 30 series axle (which I have but not had time to put in). I recently decided to set the toe in back to the 2" it had when I got it (since the tires were matched and no sign of scrapes or out of normal wear). It does drive much better now and so far I have not noticed any scrapes or scuff marks on either front tire. If you want to discuss some of the ideas I have that will "fix" you current front end email me. They are not anything radical like cutting welding etc. on the axles. [email protected]
Depending on how badly they are sagging, try 2" of toe in and go from there. As far as why it was toe out so far, I have no idea, slipped on the threads before they clamped the tie rod? who knows. The sagging of the axle tubes inside the main cast piece is the worst thing here, having the front end out wide will only aggravate it. The toe in can be set even if the arm is bent and will be fine until something gets bent again.

I've seen Deere spindles made wrong also.
A lot of problem with spindles is from
hitting a hole or something hard.
The weld where the vertical shaft goes
through the spindle is broken and the
spindle is turned a little.
It is almost impossible to get it turned
right again to reweld.
I have heated them and pushed against the
wheel with a loader.... either not enough
or too much. It's cheaper just too replace
with new.

The new arm is exactly like the old one, the right arm is over an inch closer to the wheel than the left one, so either toe in was never set or the spindle is twisted again.

(quoted from post at 18:40:02 04/17/15) The new arm is exactly like the old one, the right arm is over an inch closer to the wheel than the left one, so either toe in was never set or the spindle is twisted again.

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Worn bushings in the knees can cause the spindles to be sloppy and sag outward. When you jack up the front end, you can see the tires pull in under their own weight. This can cause alignment problems and uneven tire wear. Also, I normally run about 3/8" to 1/2" of toe in. I'm thinking I saw that in the operators manual years ago, but I could be wrong. 2" seems like an awful lot to me.

I agree that 2'' toe-in is too much. Back when I PDI'd new 3020/4020's I set the toe-in at 1/4''-3/8''.

(quoted from post at 07:08:25 04/18/15)
I agree that 2'' toe-in is too much. Back when I PDI'd new 3020/4020's I set the toe-in at 1/4''-3/8''.

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Now normally I would agree with you two on this and that is why I reset it when I first got the tractor. Tires sitting on an angle (think motorcycle cornering or rolling a tire by hand) do not track straight ahead like normal. When the front end sags (probably not having the bolts tight enough for years etc) the tires lean in at the top. This is what is causing unusual circumstances and unusual settings to counter it. Since I set mine back to an "out of spec" setting (1.5" now) it is jumping off to one side or other a lot less and I am not seeing "scraping" marks on the contact surface of one or other front tires. What you are talking about is normal new front end settings, this is a 50 year old real world worn axle setting. Does it bother me that the front sags forcing me to run this setting? Yep, enough so that I spent the money to buy an entire axle and convert it to the 30 series fronts that can't sag. So enough with the "oh that's to much" toe in smart remarks, I told you the entire situation behind it in that post. The fact that you chose to not listen to much of it except for one little thing makes me wonder if you actually read the post. So please, if you are going to comment to peoples questions and then make remarks about other peoples posts you need to make sure you read it and understand what they are talking about first. In the end you just made both of yourselves looks more like internet trolls than the educated professionals you are.

Mr Charles Whitlock
I'm sorry but the dust on my crystal ball impaired me from envisioning the SAG in your worn frt axle. I promise you I'm far from an "internet troll" and if you want to disagree with my years of experience about JD tractors & equipment that's FINE. Frankly I could care less what you choose to do so set your tractors tire toe-in at what ever gives you a warm feeling!!!
Have a nice day,Jim

Txjim my point was that the reason for it had been explained in the same post. I also called you an educated professional did I not? I always have valued your posts in the past as you do have good experience. All I want is for you to not jump on something that I say when I have explained it in the same post forcing me to restate what I already had in order to defend myself. If I disagree with someone I try to have enough respect that I will not attack their post. I will state myside and leave it at that. I am old school and don't see the need for people to be arrogant, condescending, or rude with someone. And befo for the record that last statement is a generalization about people's tendency to act out online. So please keep posting helpful neighborly advice and lets all leave attitudes elsewhere.

And one final thing, if you think your being cute or funny calling me out by posting my full name you are sorely mistaken. I stand behind every word is say on this forum and have even given out my personal email to help people on here which is you guessed it is my name. What was your point for doing that? Seriously, as I asked a while back, please act like the educated professional I know you are.

I fail to see how addressing you by your given & sir name that you BTW posted on the internet is near as BAD as you calling me an "internet troll" but my posting your name evidently offended you for which I apologize.

In my older age my reading comprehension isn't as good as it once was BUT I stand by my statement that 2'' toe-in is too much

My final statement to you is this set the toe-in at 2 inches and then later let this forum know how long the front tires last especially if tractor is driven any length of time on blacktop or concrete road.

Good day,Jim

Have seen twisted spindles .Something that is worn out sometimes has to be adjusted accordingly.Jims advice along with Tim S. is about as good as you will get both very knowledgeable and willing to share.I have learned quite a bit from both.My advice is worth what it costs and not always accurate.

If you remind periodically to update the status of my front tires I will. I can say this, with the toe set to 0.25-0.375" the right hand tire lasted less than 3years. I average around 50 hours per year and half or less is on paved ground. So yes I am trying what it had when I bought it. The front tires were wearing appropriately. I never saw the accelerated wear until I adjusted the toe in to factory specs (I had used it for 1 year before). I will try to remember to take pictures of the tires tomorrow for you and then we can have our experiment and see. I may still have your email address somewhere . It's been 4-5 years I think since you emailed me.