JD 4024 engine runs wide open

I have a John Deere 4024 Tier 2 engine (I think, 2006 EPA sticker) with about 1600 hours that was given to me. I have gotten it to run and it sounds good from what I can tell.

The problem I have with it is there is no throttle response. When started it jumps to full rpm or maybe move. I kill it as the rpm's surpass the 3000 rpm limit.
By taking the throttle cover off, I can manually manipulate the rack and vary the engine speed so I am assuming the problem is not with the rack itself. I have a service manual that is pretty extensive but having never delved into a diesel fuel system before it is a a bit confusing.

From reading the manual and looking at the pictures everything behind the cover (linkage to the governor & throttle) looks correct and in place. I can see the gear the governor is attached to but cannot see the governor itself.

My question is if the engine was over revved somehow could it have caused the governor to lock up and cause the throttle to become non responsive and cause it to run wide open or could it be another problem?

Before I take the front cover off and check and or replace the governor I'd like to get an opinion if that would be correct action to take or if maybe it could be something else.

I thank you in advance.

My guess is you need to take a serious look at the governor.

Governor ring is coming apart.

Can you guys be more specific? I have very very limited knowledge on governors on diesel engines. I'm not afraid to tackle it, I would ljust like as much information as possiblre before I do.

I thought the governor was the unit with the weights that attached to the gear under the front cover and the linkage from it some how controlled the fuel to the injectors in conjunction with the throttle assembly, but I have been informed I was incorrect on that.

Governor ring?????

Please list the injection pump make and model # so we know what you are working on, not familiar with what a 4024 has for the fuel system. Is the engine a Yanmar with the PFR style pump, which operates from the engine camshaft?

The engine is a John Deere 4024T270

It does not have an injector pump, per say.

It is a common rail engine and each injector has its own "pump" built into it.

Common rail may mean you have electrical issues, wiring or other engine control sensors with the computer system..

(quoted from post at 21:54:29 12/24/14) Common rail may mean you have electrical issues, wiring or other engine control sensors with the computer system..

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It is not a computer controlled engine. The only thing electrical on the engine is the fuel shut off, and two Murphy switches, one for high water temperature and the other for low oil pressure.

It does not have an ECM.

Not familiar with your model, any make, model #s on the fuel system?

Governor ring comment meant for an IP engine and doesn't apply to yours, please ignore.

Told incorrect by who though? Without better knowledge of expertise of said advice I would consider that advice another wrong engine situation. Everything I see says you are right on the money so far. Using the <a href="http://jdpc.deere.com/jdpc/servlet/com.deere.u90490.partscatalog.view.servlets.HomePageServlet_Alt" target="_new">parts applet.</a>
And Finding for 4024T270, then drilling down in the Pictoral view under Fuel Injection System/pump, I see:


Do you know the exact case of the various subversion numbers above? It seems quite likely to me it may have a wrong part in it. I would first get the VIN number for that tractor/engine to Deere and see what they say you should have there and a possible location for a matching number just to verify their information. Then you can take it all apart to see how it might have gone together wrong or with the wrong part. Wish I had a free tractor for Christmas...

Ho, ho, ho?

(quoted from post at 04:28:39 12/25/14) Governor ring comment meant for an IP engine and doesn't apply to yours, please ignore.

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Lee
The governor may not be the problem as I know nothing about common rail fuel systems BUT according to JDparts.com in this PC that engine has a governor very similar to the photo.
9383 - PowerTech 2.4L (4024) OEM Engine (4024TF270) - 26Aug14 ( FR DE IT ES SV )

What does the governor do if it doesn't control RPM's?.

Does this control RPM's RE523966 Engine Controller?????

Thanks,Jim

Thanks Lee, now what he has is making sense. If the rack moves freely as it should then the flyweights must not be moving the rack to the no fuel position. Spring turns fuel on, flyweights turn fuel off, and the balancing between the two control the engine to hold a given speed.

(quoted from post at 09:48:50 12/25/14) Thanks Lee, now what he has is making sense. If the rack moves freely as it should then the flyweights must not be moving the rack to the no fuel position. Spring turns fuel on, flyweights turn fuel off, and the balancing between the two control the engine to hold a given speed.

Click to expand...

Are the flyweights independent of the governor?

What is this engine in??? Is it a stand alone power unit??? The engine model number means very little to me without knowing what it is used in.

That looks like an interesting system, I never knew they did that, thanks for posting.

Interesting find Jim. Knowing less than you do about it (believe that much), I was able to price that part at $400, it appears to be a brain box but at that piddly price it can't be too very smart. Under Engine Performance I see it associated with an aneroid and solenoid, so I'm left with the guess that it's for turbo lag compensation/smoke reduction system. Which may not even be on this particular engine as the OP claims minimal electronics on it. This wouldn't be minimal in my opinion. So I'll further guess he doesn't have a turbo.

Weight Kit is number 17 while Governor Kit is 29



Weight Kit is footnoted also as flyweight - this appears to be a non-serviceable replace only unit. I would still be tempted to gain entry.

A good while ago there was a thread about a similar WOT situation, can't find it now. But the wife posted asking for hopefully an easy fix if there was one - there wasn't and it died. A throttle stop spring bolt was bent and no one knew why it would get bent. I had a diagram downloaded of it but since that time I've had to re-install windows and of course the downloaded diagram is not where I would have put it. Suspecting this is that same engine and problem under new management but have no way of telling. Anybody's memory better than mine?

Sorry Guys, Yesterday was a bit hectic.

I first want to apologize for any confusion my post has caused.

The engine is a John Deere 4024TF270C not a tractor model number. The engine is attached to a 1000 GPM pump.

LEEB: By subversion numbers, do you mean the option codes?
No, I don't at this time but will have them tomorrow.

After looking at the diagram of the injection system in your post and reading the one from Dieseltech about the spring opening and the weights closing the rack it makes sense now. I had it completely backwards. There is a light beginning to shine in my brain, dimly but it's there.

From what I can tell by looking at the engine, it has never been opened up. the factory paint and sealant are all still in tack.

If I have it correct, the arrow pointing to the piece in the upper part of the diagram either rides in front of or is attached to the flyweight (that the arrow in the lower part of the diagram points to) and as the engine rpms increase the nose of the flyweight retracts the center section inwards which in turn pulls on the lever to open the rack more. Am I even close to being on the right track?

If I am, I see how the fly weight being stuck would allow the the engine to run wide open. If that's the case would you advise replacing the governor and the flyweight? I'm inclined to.

Here is the only picture I have of the "governor". Everything seems to be in place, but the opening is small and I can't see what the lower portion of the arm nor the flyweight is doing \.

Yes pretty much right with red arrow connection is also my take on it. It may work backwards though where the flyweight contact comes out of it with higher RPM. Either way (in/out) it's supposed to move with speed changes.

Don't buy a thing except shop towels until you KNOW you need it.

Have to wonder how option became the word to use there, but this series of numbers below tells me you can have some different versions of parts that might be in there - should find out exactly which one is in yours first so we can look at the way those parts are laid out for that matching number. Won't do me any good to look at 1608 diagram when you've got 1657. For all I know the only difference is in the required part number and maybe not even there except for one or two parts on each page.
1601
1608
1615
1628
1632
1654
1657

If it's only a defective flyweight I would buy only that and nothing else. As stated in another post I would attempt to repair it first as well. Have no idea what I'm looking at in your picture, if you do, see what you can do to put more colored arrows on them and then relate the color to a part number. Maybe the light will come on for me too.

I am assuming this cover is on the right side with engine front to the right in the picture. Use vehicle left and right please meaning as if it were installed in a car with driver side as left and passenger side as right.

The clevis attached rod in upper part of photo goes up, but to where?

Good to know any info and history, thanks. Wow some pump, 8 inch suction? In your absence, I tried to find the other post I mentioned, still no luck there it was a similar setup IIRC. What I did find out was a potential problem though - these engines are popular on gensets too. There is one in Belize that had some injector/pump work done on it by someone less than qualified apparently. When these injectors are re-installed they must be aligned to the rack with special tools such that it is in sync with the other three. Is it possible that one or more of the injectors have been removed and installed in such a way as to lock the rack? Paint undisturbed around them?

Won't be around Monday so next response won't be until tuesday evening.

Meant to correct the locked rack suggestion before posting, haste makes waste. I forgot you said your rack was free so never mind that suggestion, but do take heed about pulling injectors lightly, they will require tools and talent when going back in.

Here goes...

I think it works like this:

There is a fuel shut off solenoid sitting on to of the picture you cannot see but the rod at the top of the picture is attached to it.

When there is no power to the solenoid a spring inside it pushes down on the rod which is attached to lever "B" in the picture which pivots the long arm inwards toward the engine and closes the rack, thereby shutting the fuel off and killing the engine.

When power is applied to the solenoid the long arm of the lever "B" moves outward towards the front of the engine and opens the rack. The spring on the rack attempts open the rack wide open.

The flyweight is attached via a fork (from what I have read) to the lever "D". Lever "D" should slide past arm "B" and be pressing against the rack thereby keeping in what every position the throttle is set at until reduce speed causes the flyweights to close and pulling the fork inwards to the engine thereby moving lever "D" out and opening the rack to allow more fuel until it bumps up against the throttle setting.

Simplistic view and I may have it wrong......

Once again I find you pretty much right on the money and I share your opinion on how it works. Will be very interesting to learn what went south in there, Best of luck with it.

Lee:

It's a 1657.

It may be a few days to a few weeks before I get back out there and tackle it, but I''ll be sure and take pictures and report back my findings.

If you or anyone else come up with any ideas please let me know.

I appreciate everyone's time.

Just thought I'd report back as to the findings.

I was the flyweights that were causing the problem.

Somehow moisture had collected on the flyweights and had rusted the weights to the body and the bearing that the governor leaver rides on, rendering it inoperable.

There was no rust on the camshaft gear that the flyweight bolts to or other internal parts.

After inspecting the lever kit and not finding anything wrong, I replaced the flyweight and put it back together. It fired up and ran up to about 1500 rpm's and then settled back down to the normal idle speed of 900. Having read a bit about these motors, this is normal. It revs for just a second until the flyweights catch up to the engine speed and then slows it down.

I would like to thank those that helped guide me through this.