Considering a JD crawler

As I'm working in the woods on my property this winter I'm reminded about a lack of traction on the steep terrain in my corner of Illinois. I've been cutting some trees; mostly for firewood and needing to drag some logs and tree tops up out of my woods. I've never had a crawler tractor before, but I'm thinking that something like a 40C-420C-430C or perhaps even newer like a 1010 would work for my purposes. Of course for earth moving a reverser would be nice, but probably not a must.
As far as tracks go, I would guess I would need grousers rather than regular (and less aggressive) tracks.
I'm a little bit torn about looking for one equipped with a loader versus a blade.

Since I"m not setup to work on undercarriages I'm going to have to look for something that doesn't need any major work or repair...essentially I want to find something usable for this season and that has had some work done to it in recent memory.

I've seen a few in the past with cable winches on back...that would be pretty useful for skidding trees & logs, but I'd want a drawbar too for hooking up a moldboard plow on occasion.

Any suggestions would be welcome...and yes budget is important as I don't want to mortgage the farm to buy one.

Tyler in IL

Take an experienced dozer hand with you when you find one. Pay attention to him - don't fall in love with something that he's not comfortable with. Buy him and his wife a nice steak dinner for his advice. It's money well spent. I have a 420C in pieces in my shop right now. They can be a money pit. Here's a link to a real good site for old JD dozer owners (or soon to be owners).
JD Crawlers

I've got a J.D 350c crawler loader that I use for what you want to do. It's about a 1975 model and a lot easier to work on than the older converted AG crawlers and a lot tougher.

Tyler,

PJH has some good advise for all of us but good luck trying to find that guy on a moments notice.

I have seen several crawlers sell at auction in the past that sold cheaper than expected. You might find a 350 or 450 cheaper than some of the older ones.

I will second the recommendation for Lavoy Wicox's crawler web site.

Have not used mine much, too afraid to break somethting.

Dirt pile in the back yard.

First real work done with the dozer.

You didn't mention what size trees, how far you need to drag them, how many at a time you want to bunch to together, etc.

I've got half-a-dozen crawlers from tiny to 12 tons. I mostly work in steep woods and need to drag out fairly large hardwoods. Not far though. I just need the crawler to pull down trees that get hung up (happens often in deep woods). Also to drag 2-3 at a time out to a common flatter area where I cut them up. For that sort of work, a little Oliver HG or OC3 works great. Plenty of traction, pulling power and small enough to get into tight places. NO steering clutches to ever worry about. Also easy to work on since it's a simple machine. That's at my place at New York. Here in northern Michigan I use a Case 310G dozer to do the same. Has a bigger engine then the Oliver but same transmission. Perfect for tight woods work.

Once you start talking about hydraulic reversers, wet or dry steering clutches, etc. the machine gets more complex. Harder to work on, parts harder to get, and a lot more expensive to fix.

My next biggest is a 1960 John Deere 1010 loader with rear ripper with high-grouser dozer tracks. Same size gas engine as a 420 two-banger. Just four small pistons instead of two big ones. Has a hydraulic reverser. Great to have but if it ever craps out - I doubt I'd spend the money to fix it (and I was a Deere mechanic). Loader is also great to have in the woods for various reasons. When in the steep woods, I use the rear ripper as a "parking brake."

If you look for something newer and more complex like a Deere 350, 350B, or 350C all I can say is "watch out." I've seen many that run fine but are ready to break apart and not cost-effective to fix. 350s have a tendency to come loose where the reverser case joins the transmission case. Easy to spot. Just look underneath and look for a gap or stripped studs or missing bolts. There are "logger special" 350 dozers with no reversers. I'd prefer one of those over one with a reverser at this point in time. If you choose aq 350C, then you've got wet steering clutches to worry about, torsional-isolator on the flywheel coming apart, etc. Also note that many parts for Deere 350Cs are no longer available from Deere.

Too much to list here to itemize. If you want to buy a small crawler, do your homework on any model you are thinking of buying.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I have had three of the small Dubuque crawlers in the last 43 years. The first was a 5 roll 40C with a Lord loader that I used clearing a house lot and plowing the driveway for 20+ years. The second was an early 420C 4 roll that I was going to completely redo and use as a woods machine, but got side tracked when I bought a nice 40C 4 roll machine that came from Long Island,NY and had nice undercarriange. I sold the 420C and the 40C with the loader and now have the green 40C. If you buy one, the most important thing is the undercarriange and tracks. The rest is relatively easy (with money) to fix. The JD machines with the steering clutches were popular here in the northeast for woods use because they could go nice and slow and work in thigh spots. My brother had an Oliver OC4 and while a nice machine in open ground, it was not as good in the woods. JMHO!

My collection before I sold the two on the outside.

Tyler, is this something that you maybe looking for?


lol, I know it's not. Saw this beast in Versailles, MO yesterday at Zimmermans. Aaron built it starting with a Cat D6 B for the frame and undercarriage. It has a Cummins 300 motor with propane injection. Behind the Cummins is a 9 speed transmission. Steering is air controlled. I think he told us it would travel up to 12 mph. The cab is off a 40 series JD tractor. At 27 years old, I was impressed.

I second the Oliver Cletrac HG or OC-3. Easy to work on and you can easily put in a replacement engine out of something else. Wish I had kept mine years ago.
Richard in NW SC

No matter what size or kind you chose they are High Maintenance... the older ones had poor design in final drives and clutches, the 1010 and 2010's had some bearings in the final drives that had no inner race, just a roller bearing running on a shaft that soon eat the shaft up, I chose a 2010 tracks and final drives to make my 60C and had to do a lot of "up Grading" to make it work out, I re-machined some of the shafts and housings to allow the use of better bearings and seals. If your not going to be doing much grading you may be better off with a medium size 4X4 tractor which you could use for other chores, a crawler has a lot of limits on what you can do with it...

What "early" 1010 has bearings in the final drives with no bearing races? I've worked on many a 1010 final drive and I've never seen such a thing. My first-year 1010 (as early as they get) has no such thing. Top shaft (input) had a pair of Timken-style cup and cone bearings - JD7449, JD8134, JD8179 and JD8220. Bottom bull-gear and drive axle is also supported by two cup-and-cone adjustable bearings - JD7242, JD7292, JD7418 and JD8220.

Don't believe some of the nonsense being posted here. Especially about "early" 1010 Deere crawlers lacking bearing races in the final drives. In fact, I've seen a final drive from any Deere crawler built that way. If there actually is some obscure model like that I'm not privy to - please post. Just don't tell me it's Deere 1010s. They have full cup-and-cone adjustable bearing support.

The 2010 final was that way for sure, I was thinking the 1010 was just the same #7 bearing on #6 shaft is an example, when it cuts into the shaft the pinion wobbles up and down on the big gear #26

That was only on the 2010 and they did that so make it easier to access the steering clutches. You pull that top shaft out, and then remove the clutches without having to remove the final drive. At least that's what my memory tells me. I have not had a 2010 final apart in a long time. Regardless - if the shaft is heat-treated properly, a roller bearing-on-shaft can work and last fine. Just like many semi-floating rear axles in pickup trucks. 14 bolt semi-floater in my 3/4 Chevy Suburban had over 500,000 miles on those rear axle shafts riding on roller bearings. 10 and 12 bolt GM coporate had that setup too. So do many newer Fords and Dodges.

Parts availability now adays is a huge issue. I suspect for a simple-built, older crawler that's small - something like a Case 310 with all gear drive is about as simple as they get. My 310G has all gear drive, NO steering clutches, and the same transmission that Terratracs, Oliver-Cletrac HGs and OC3s, and Bombardier crawlers use. Has a common Case 188 engine. Bottom rollers still used in some newer equipment and available new, cheap, from Asia.

2nd to that when it comes to finding parts and simplicity is the Oliver HG and OC3 except the engines. Hercules and Continental engines not so easy to get parts for. Even more obscure when you move up to an Oliver OC4 with a Hercules 3 cylinder engine. Lots of HGs and OC3s in junkyards to rob pars off of. They were sort of the "Model T" of crawlers.

Nothing wrong with many Deere crawlers either other then parts availability. Deere machines use a lot of proprietary parts and many have been dropped by Deere. Not all are available aftermarket. What Deere DOES have is priced out of this world!

Undercarriage is also a big deal. Undercarriage parts for older machines getting harder to get as time goes on. Aftermarket companies like Berco have stopped making many of the parts for older crawlers.

I prefer my Oliver HG over anything else in dense woods. I also like having the farm-type PTO in back. But - I have an aux transmission in it. That gives it a creeper gear it lacks without the aux. Oliver sold kits to put the aux in for the OC3 (or HG). Later OC4s had it as more of a standard option.

I've had several JD crawlers over the years,but ran across this old case 450.A friend of mine bought it new and did small jobs till at 80 years old he had his knees replaced and decided to retire.

Have you considered purchasing a large skid steer equipped with tracks ? Then selling it after the heavy work is complete.

There in such thing as an inexpensive crawler. They are all expensive to fix and own. I wouldn't waste my time or money on the 2-cylinder units if you really want to get some work done. Look for a 350 or 450 with a 6 way blade preferably a 450.

I agree the little 2 cyl. ones are cute, but....not much power, same with a 350..a 450 will do much more ...

Here's my 420c loved it had an 8 foot dozer and it also has a PTO they had reversers you could get I'd like to put one on when I get it going again

OC4 came in several different versions. So just
because one person did not like a certain
version in the woods - another might be better.
OC4 was available with either an aux trans with
a creeper gear OR a mechanical reverser. Never
both. It was also available with NO steering
clutches, or WITH wet steering clutches. Also
available with a 3 cylinder Hercules gas
engines or a diesel. So there are many
variations.
OC4 with the "Slo-Lo" aux moved at .8 MPH at
1700 RPM - just like a Deere 420. If the OC4
had the "Travel Reverser" it moved at 1.5 MPH
in 1st gear.

We had a 420 with a PTO growing up, it's what gave me the idea to build my 60C

That is cool . You must be pretty handy to build something like that .