Weights vs. fluid

RB70D

Member
Do wheel weights perform as well as fluid in bias ply tires? Is there a difference, what is your opinion?
 
I think there's a difference as to where they exert their force at, their different centers of gravity, but I never could quite get my mind around it.
 
Weights always perform better. They allow the tire to achieve its maximum tractive effort by allowing it to distort to conform to the surface of the ground under heavy load. Fluid prevents the tire from being able to flex to achieve maximum footprint. Weights allow for a better ride for the same reason.

Tire repairs will be cheaper and easier with weights.

You'll never have to buy more when you puncture a tire.

Weights have residual value if you ever decide to sell them.

Weights wont corrode your rims.

You can easily adjust your ballast with weights.

I feel like its a no-brainer but some still promote fluid because it's what they use, despite the logic.
 
(quoted from post at 07:21:19 12/14/14)
Fluid prevents the tire from being able to flex to achieve maximum footprint. Weights allow for a better ride for the same reason.

Weights wont corrode your rims.

You can easily adjust your ballast with weights.

Are you referring to both bias-ply & radials when you state "achieve maximum footprint"?

Not all liquid weight corrodes rims

How many farmers do you actually know that remove/install rear wheel weights to accommodate tractor's task? I was employed at a JD dealer for over 21 yrs and never witnessed a farmer installing/removing rear wheel weights to suit the task of a tractor. Usually once weights were installed they stayed installed. I can tell you from experience rear wheel weights are not fun to install/remove.

If rear tire fluid is "SO DETRIMENTAL" why do tractor manufacturers outline the correct method for adding fluid in their operators manual????
 
Jim, you always like to talk about the "facts" not "hear-say". Last time this question came up I posted two links. One was to Firestone and one was to Deere's website. They both recommended cast iron ballast. Firestone recommended cast iron regardless of bias/radial. If properly inflated bias ply tires shouldn't be so rigid as not to be able to flex. I don't have hours to again research those web pages.

I'll agree that some liquids are less corrosive than others, but all liquids promote rust (even those that have rust inhibitors). If you have even water and atmospheric air you have oxidation (rust). Even if you nitrogen filled the tire, the liquid that seeps from the valve stem eventually meets atmospheric oxygen which gives the necessary requirements for oxidation.

As for adding and removing ballast... I do. I dont do it every time I change implements but I do add and remove weights for big jobs that are going to warrant the savings in fuel and tire care.

I don't know exactly what operators manual you are referring to, but tractor manufacturers are well aware that some refuse to buy their weights even if they offer the greatest efficiency. They realize that if someone is hard headed enough to use the liquid that at least they should add it correctly.
 
Fluid is cheap weight but becomes expensive once its put in.Tire shops and prospective buyers don't care for it.The R3404 140# rear weights still bring about $1 per # and 15 gallon of fluid is worth$.00.A neighbor bought a cheap tractor from southern region and had me look at it seemed to have a problem that wasn't there when it arrived only to find out the tires had been partially filled with water which in Ia doesn't work.I bought a 100 hour tractor in N.C.and it was 20 below when it came with #2 fuel.We got it started after plugging it in and unloaded it directly in to heated shop.One of the easiest ways to pull a muscle in your back is putting on weights due to the angle.
 

In my JD 4255 operators manual on page 65-5 it outlines the correct procedure for adding liquid ballast to rear tires. My Kubota operators manual for '11 M7040 also outlines correct liquid ballasting. I couldn't locate liquid ballasting info on JD website but I'm not very good when it comes to searching. Plus ballasting for tillage(traction) & ballasting for general purpose(stability) are two totally different things
 
Advantages of fluid.
1. It's cheap
2. You can get more weight on the rears (not always a good thing).
3. It lowers the center of gravity.

Its disadvantages outweigh its advantages.
1 - You can't fix your own tires without owning a fluid pump.
2 - Your rims are more likely to rust with CaCl, unless you are very fastidious about fixing leaks and keeping leaks cleaned up.
3 - You need to either fill the tires over the top of the rim running tubeless, or you need $90 tubes.
4 - You're tractor will have a less comfortable ride.
5 - CaCl has no resale value.
6 - CaCl increases the cost of tire service.

I'd say iron weights any day of the week. I've purged CaCl on every tractor I own.
 
That is an excellent point... ballasted with
liquid would offer a little lower center of
gravity.

Perhaps that is why here in WI (hilly), just about
every tractor seems to have ballast in the tires,
but everything I've bought in IL (flat) has no
liquid ballast.
 
(quoted from post at 10:04:24 12/14/14) Advantages of fluid.
1. It's cheap
2. You can get more weight on the rears (not always a good thing).
3. It lowers the center of gravity.

Its disadvantages outweigh its advantages.

2 - Your rims are more likely to rust with CaCl, unless you are very fastidious about fixing leaks and keeping leaks cleaned up.
3 - You need to either fill the tires over the top of the rim
4 - You're tractor will have a less comfortable ride.

When I had liquid ballast in my tractors rear tires I couldn't tell it rode worse in fact I think it road better. Not all liquids rust rims(Rim Guard & antifreeze are 2 examples). If one follows the instructions one will fill to valve stem when it's sitting at 12 o'clock which should cover the rim with liquid.
 
(quoted from post at 01:49:34 12/14/14) Do wheel weights perform as well as fluid in bias ply tires? Is there a difference, what is your opinion?

Rather than opinion lets go with the facts measured with accurate calibrated instruments at a tractor tire companies test laboratory.
All other factors identical. A tractor with 1000lbs of bolt on cast tire wheel weights on dry tires. The dry tires will out pull with all other factors identical. A tractor with 1000lbs of liquid tire wheel ballast.
No if's and's or but's.

The choice all comes down to upfront cost and what the owner thinks of as normal procedure. If Great Grand Pappy Bubba, Grand Pappy Bubba and Pappy Bubba all added calcium Chloride to tractor tires. Odds are that Bubba Junior will also add calcium chloride to his tractor tires.
 
Well if you have a front mounted loader then you will likely NEED both to achieve enough counter weight to be safe.
 
(quoted from post at 10:18:36 12/14/14)
Rather than opinion lets go with the facts measured with accurate calibrated instruments at a tractor tire companies test laboratory.
[/quote]

Dang b&d you late to one of your favorite discussions.As I previously stated the are other factors involved besides "traction" such as stability. I think liquid ballast of equal weight will give just as good stability to tractor as iron weights. You focus in on CaCl but there's other non corrosive antifreeze soulutions
 

As far as stability is concerned cast iron vs liquid ballast. There is more difference with the weight of the operator and amount of fuel in the tank.
 
In theory, a tire filled 75 percent full of liquid ballast would be slightly less flexible than one filled with air, because of the smaller volume of air (i.e. a stiffer spring). But I don't know how much difference that would actually makes in pulling ability: 1/10 percent more pull; or 50 percent more pull.

Over the years, there must been many tests made by tire manufacturers, tractor manufactures, land grant state universities, etc., but it's rare to see any published results. It would be interesting to see the differences on sod, corn stalks, plowed ground, mud, and ice (the last two for yard and feedlot tractors).

At around $1 a pound for iron weights I wouldn't be in a hurry to replace several thousand pounds of fluid weight with iron weights except on a newer tractor that does 500+ hours of heavy tillage every year.
 
(quoted from post at 13:20:10 12/14/14)
As far as stability is concerned cast iron vs liquid ballast. There is more difference with the weight of the operator and amount of fuel in the tank.

Are you implying extra weight such as cast iron or liquid doesn't help tractor stability?????
 
Don't know if there's enough difference to matter. Deere recommended adding fluid to all four tires on Dubuques and weights as needed. Dealers were supposed to add fluid when prepping the tractor for sale. Yes, it's in the manual. Either one is bad when it comes time to remove them. JMO
 
When one goes to RimGuard or whatever other "noncorrosive" fluid, the cost advantage shrinks fast. CaCl is far and away the most common liquid ballast. There is only one source that I know of in my area. They still fill CaCl 10-1 versus beet juice.

In my opinion, liquid ballast is cheap in the short run and expensive in the long run.
 

Granted I live in Texas but when I worked at JD dealer performing PDI on new tractors I installed 5 gal of antifreeze per 18.4X38 rear tires as instructed by dealer. 5% AF would keep the tires from freezing.
 
I had gotten rid of all fluid from tires around here. Then, several years ago I bought a used 200HP MFWD tractor. After doing all the research I could- split weighing tractor- reading tractor book- tire book- trying it in the field- I decided I needed to add 4000# to the rear end. Fast. I refused to have any more cacl, so it was the expensive stuff. 400 gal.(@ about 10#/gal)- Seems like it was $1700. An issue I ran into was differing directions as to how to load tires when there are multiple tires on one axle. One place said all tires on axle should be the same. Another said no fluid in outer tires. I would still prefer iron weight.
 
I'm sure the difference between the 2 would not be noticed by normal farming practices, sometimes you have to have both as in heavy loader work
 
Just bought an IH with 4 huge cast weights inside and out look to weigh 1000# each.Too much trouble to take off for salvage price.
 
We've got tractors that have had fluid in the tires for 45 years, and no detrimental rim rot yet.

Sure, everyone would like to run wheel weights, but there's two problems,

generally, guys who weight up the rear of a tractor are doing it because there's a loader up front. it's hard to get enough weight with wheel weights (without sticking out past the axle stub) to do the job in comparison to using liquid.

the other problem is cost. nobody wants to spend extra for wheel weights that they're going to have to pay extra to have mounted, or try and break their back doing themself. unless it's a new tractor, who in their right mind wants to install inside wheel weights on a used tractor? Wheel weights I have used have a tenancy to loosen up over time as well. maybe it's just me.

As for re-selling the old wheel weights, nobody I've ever known is ambitious enough to want to remove the wheel weights for re-sale. it's not worth the time and labor invested....

If I'm buying a used tractor, I'm not going to give more money for a tractor with weights vs chloride in the tires. it's something that goes along with the tractor. if I notice you've removed them, I'm going to insist they are replaced, or fluid added, because the odds are I'm buying the tractor to do the same job and the previous owner.


Chloride does give you a lower center of gravity which helps too.

The ride difference is negligible....


we have wheel weights on one of our tractors (the newest) and while it's nice that we don't have to deal with chloride when we replace tires every 15 years, I can tell you that the wheel weights are barely enough to do the job.


Don't know how much it costs to replace rotted out 18.4 r38 rims, but if I can get 50 years out of them, odds are I'm not the guy replacing them.
 
I am not sure the cost of new rims for 18x38 tires, but 34s are around 280 a piece last time I checked, pretty cheap imo. I have both iron (one each side) and liquid (sugar water) in my 4020. Neither was enough alone. My cousin has 8 cast irons on each side of his 4010 and 4020 and that just makes you pretty wide for a chore tractor as far as I am concerned. My personal preference is to run both. Since before I was born my dad and grandpa ran cacl and iron weight with all the tractors. Its never been a problems that I am aware of. We don't get flats very often so losing the cacl was rare. If we punctured one drive til the leak is on top and what was lost generally didn't get replaced. I am not aware of them ever having to replace a rusted out rim either. The fittings for adding and removing liquid are pretty cheap and so is a pump and some washed old plastic 55 gallon drums. A person should run what they are comfortable with and is appropriate for their climate. Winter generally gets around -15F or so and my sugar water hasn't frozen yet (that I could tell)
 

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