60 ignition timing issues

My 60 is still running on only one cylinder, although I have been able to make it run on either cylinder #1 or #2, just not both at the same time. I discovered this by removing the distributor and turning the motor manually one revolution before reinstalling the distributor. So this has ruled out any question of carburation or cap/wire problems. It seems as though the ignition is 90% out, but since the distributor indexes at 180% increments, that doesn't fix it. I know someone has been in the engine before, because the TDC mark on the flywheel isn't properly aligned with the reference pt on the adjacent cover when #1 is @ TDC. In fact, it's off by about 90%. So is it possible that they got the distributor out of time in the governor housing, and if so , how can I tell? I've also been able to get each cylinder to fire by rotating the shaft ring on the Petronix elsctronic ignition to the two postions at which it will register on the shaft. I'm really stumped. Any help will be much appreciated.

Does the rotor have one or two legs on it?

one

If I recall your last post, there was confusion if your distributor was horizontal governor shaft driven like on a 60,, or a vertical cam driven (1/2 of crank RPM) unit like a 620???

Again lets get back to ignition basics of the governor shaft driven horizontal distributors:

Iffffffffff all is correct and in time and iffffffff the flywheel is on the correct crank spline:

When the left piston is at TDC,,,,,,,,,the Left hand Impulse (LHI) Timing Mark on the flywheel should be in the 3 o clock position.

Ifffffffffff the cam is timed correct to the crank and ifffffffffff the Governor shaft is timed correct to the cam, the open female slot in the governor shaft end (where mag or horizontal distributor mates) SHOULD BE FLAT HORIZONTAL FORE AND AFT

Now if the distributor had points (same as when leading magnet passes by the pick up coil) when the left piston is at TDC THE POINTS NEED TO BE JUST OPENING (or magnet is lined up with elec pickup coil) THEN TURN THE CRANK 180 and the right piston is at TDC then the points should be just opening again (and the trailing magnet lines up with the pickup coil)

Soooooooo with the dist cap off you can see where the rotor tip would be pointing (if cap were on) when the left and right pistons are at TDC, so you ought to be able to figure out why it is or isn't throwing a spark out the correct cap tower at those times...............

Since were not there we cant give you any spoon fed correct answer you're looking for, so you just have to take the info above and by looking at the cap and rotor tip and getting the pistons to TDC and seeing where the magnets are you can hopefully figure it out.

NOTE this still applies to a vertical cam driven distributor as far as where the rotor tip and magnets are at each pistons TDC, so by getting the pistons to TDC and looking at the cap and rotor and magnet location, you should still be able to figure it out!!!!!!!!!!

best wishes, best I can do not being there

John T

Thank you, John T, for your detailed description of the proper position of components. I have determined that my tractor is definitly a 60, not a 620 as the paint scheme belied. When I determined that the #1 cylinder was at TDC by manuallly turning the flywheel while ocluding the plug hole with my thumb, I found that the cam side of the distributor drive was dead level as you described, and that the LHI mark(previously unnoticed) was about 5 degrees shy of the 3 oclock reference mark. The 'TDC' mark was about 10-12 degrees past the top of the flywheel arc. I also found matching 'F6' marks on the end of the crank and the inside rim of the flywheel, so I guess I was wrong about it being installed incorrectly. I turned my distributor shaft so that the rotor was aligned with the top post on the cap, feeding the #1 cylinder, and reinstalled it. The tractor started and ran on the #1 cylinder, still with a 'no fire' condition to the #2 plug. When I pull the plug wire off #1, I can make it arc over an inch, so there is a good spark available.

I believe the reason Teddy asked if your rotor had 1 or 2 arms on it is becasue there were different distributor cap & rotor combinations used through the years.

Though they all had 2 towers, some tower posts inside the caps were 90° apart & needed the 2 arm rotor. Others had the posts 180° apart (straight across from each other) & those used the single arm rotors!

Take your cap off & look inside it. Are the posts directly across from each other? If they are NOT directly across from each other you have a choice. Either you need to get a different cap or a 2 arm rotor. Your 1 arm rotor only will work with a cap that has the posts directly across from each other and maybe this is the problem. It surely would make it run on only 1 cylinder!

Good to hear from you. Okay, so when the left piston is at TDC, the rotor tip is lined up with where there's a cap inside pick up that leads to the outside tower for the left cylinder plug wire and a magnet is at the pickup coil which triggers a spark

SO FAR SO GOOD

NEXT THING THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO FIRE THE RIGHT CYLINDER 180 DEGREES LATER

Now if the flywheel is turned exactly 180 (1/2 way around) the governor shaft also turns 180 and then the right piston is at its TDC....

OKAY if it has the correct distributor cap the rotor tip is now (turned 180 to other side remember) pointing to an inside cap pick up which connects inside that plastic to the other external cap tower that leads to the other plug wire IF IT IS AND THE LAGGING MAGNET IS NOW AT THE PICK UP COIL, THE COIL SHOULD FIRE AGAIN AND ITS SPARK DIRECTED TO THAT OTHER CAP TOWER TO THE RIGHT PLUG

Again that's the best I can do not being there, you gotta have the correct cap (its internal pickups are 180 apart even if the outside towers are different),,,,,,,,,,The lagging magnet must be at the pick up coil 180 after the leading magnet was,,,,,,,,,

PS ARE BOTH WIRES AND PLUGS OKAY?? HAVE YOU TRIED WIRE AND PLUG SWAPS TO INSURE BOTH ARE OKAY??

Good luck, let me know

John T

Al, I didn't read your post until AFTER I posted my final comment above (I assumed a single tip rotor) YOUR INFORMATION IS VERY GOOD AND SHOULD HELP HIM if he reads it along with mine and can understand them both together???

John T

Pry the tin cover off the Center of
flywheel, rotate engine so that the
slot in flywheel is horizontal with
the floor,remove the dist and that
slot in the govenor shaft should be
horizontal as well, if it is then
govenor shaft is timed correct, when
you reinstall the dist it could be
half off,you can just swap wires or
remove dist and turn it one half
turn.

Thanks for your advice. Yes my rotor has a single arm and my cap has 2 posts 180 degrees apart. As for the position of the magnets, l can't attest, as the collar looks the same from all perspectives till you remove it.

I am sure the plugs and wires are good, cause I had it running on the other cylinder yesterday, when I rotated the distributor 180 degrees.

Didn't propane distributors run at camshaft speed? Could this be a propane distributor or visa versa?

CPeter

Please send us a picture of the dist apart (cap & locating plate off) and one of it together.

You're going to have to figure out where those magnets are, use a screwdriver to feel their pull. It fires when one of them passes by that pickup coil and that needs to happen at each 180 degrees so each plug fires 180 after the other.

John T

I won't be able to post any pics till Thurs afternoon. The dist cap has 3 outlets, all exiting flat out the side. Inside are a single arm rotor which feeds 2 pickups oriented at 180 degrees from one another. I am trying to locate a cap with 90 degree pickups and a 2 arm rotor button to see if that will correct my problem. They seem to be scarce. A friend of mine says his unstyled B has a 2 armed button. Could that possibly be compatible with my cap?

There should be a metal tag on your dist. with a Delco number maybe (1111558) We need to see how it was put together. I am sure this problem can be solved. You are not the first to have a problem. Don't give up.

If you have a single tip rotor, your cap has 2 inside terminals each 180 opposite from the other, and the rotor is lined up with one of them at each pistons TDC, THE CAP AND ROTOR ISNT THE PROBLEM IN MY OPINION.

Its possible that magnet assembly that fits down over your distributor cam isn't correct or isn't mounted correct or doesn't have the necessary 2 magnets that are 180 opposite each other.

The coil fires when a magnet lines up with the pick up coil and that needs to happen each 180 degrees. Left fires at TDC and 180 later right fires on its TDC

I'm familiar with single (some Wico C) and 2 tip MAGNETO rotors (some Wico X) but not distributor rotors...

John T

I appreciate your complement Sir. Thank you very much.

Thanks for the encouragment. That # was painted over, and now that I've scraped it off, it's really hard to read. I'll give it a shot tomorrow. Our club's show/pull is this weekend, and I had my sights set on getting it there, but doesn't seem too likely. Danny

I just removed my distributor and brought it inside so my wife, with better eyes, could read the Delco tag. I bought the wrong electronic module back when I still thought I had a 620, not a 60. Hope to find one of the right one at our show today and hopefully this will rectify the problem. Boy, do I feel stupid. lI thought I was supposed to get WISER with age. Danny