420W Trans Noise and Advice on Splitting

flyphoto

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I'm working on my Dad's '57 420W with 5 speed, and two stage clutch. I can hear a growling bearing in all gears and at a stop when the clutch is engaged, and it goes quiet when the clutch is pushed down/disengaged. I'm thinking input shaft bearing(s)? Does that sound right to everyone? I know I have to split the tractor to remove the input shaft and I've never done that, but I've done a lot of mechanical work on cars/pickups. What advice would you give a person as far as supporting both parts of the tractor and the best way to move the two halves apart and then back together again. I don't have a front loader or A-frame or engine hoist to work with. Is it possible with just jack stands and a floor jack?
 
You have to do more than just split the tractor in half. To get the shaft out of the tranny, you need to split the tractor, remove the rockshaft and final drives to get the tranny apart. Every thing comes out the hole on top where the gear shift lever is. Get a John Deere service manual, it will explain in detail on how to remove gears and shafts in the right order. Good Luck...John
 
Thanks for the reply. I noticed that the manual said that I had to remove the differential, output shaft etc, but I had been told that the input shaft could be removed without doing all that. After looking at a picture in the manual, it doesn't look like there is room to move the input shaft unless the output shaft is out of the way. It seems my source was thinking of another tractor...

I guess my only hope would be that the defective bearing is in the front cover of the trans housing. It looks like that could be replaced without removing final drives, diff, output shaft etc.
 
(quoted from post at 21:04:21 10/18/14) I'm working on my Dad's '57 420W with 5 speed, and two stage clutch. I can hear a growling bearing in all gears and at a stop when the clutch is engaged, and it goes quiet when the clutch is pushed down/disengaged. I'm thinking input shaft bearing(s)? Does that sound right to everyone? I know I have to split the tractor to remove the input shaft and I've never done that, but I've done a lot of mechanical work on cars/pickups. What advice would you give a person as far as supporting both parts of the tractor and the best way to move the two halves apart and then back together again. I don't have a front loader or A-frame or engine hoist to work with. Is it possible with just jack stands and a floor jack?

100% disassemble with all new bearings and seals, then set the clearances.
Manual from 1-800-522-7448 is cheaper than doing the job over again.
Slant steer or straight steer ?
 
I've got the John Deere manual, that's good advice. I appreciate the help on this, but here's an extra twist. The trans had extensive work done on it in 2006. All the bearings on the output shaft were replaced and the cluster gear. So, I'd like to leave that alone if at all possible. What is the likelihood that it's the bearings in the front cover of the transmission and not on the input shaft? Any good way to predict that without a major tear down?
 
(quoted from post at 04:27:18 10/19/14) It's a straight steer.

Any chance it is the throw-out bearing that failed? Especially if your clutch was misadjusted and had the bearing riding against the clutch fingers.
 
(quoted from post at 23:35:42 10/18/14)
(quoted from post at 04:27:18 10/19/14) It's a straight steer.

Any chance it is the throw-out bearing that failed? Especially if your clutch was misadjusted and had the bearing riding against the clutch fingers.

Worth a look. Many of those two stage clutch setups were done via by guess and by golly without the proper tools and specs.
 
I would add "BE CAREFUL".

Brace the front axle to the pedestal cultivator mount to keep the front half from flopping sideways.

Think about first splitting it at the flywheel - inspect the clutches, throw-out bearing, etc.

Then move on back if necessary. Ending up with it in thirds might be better for you than splitting it in half.
 
I think that I'll build a frame to bolt to the two holes that are right at the rear of the engine block, there are two 3/4" threaded holes that I can use. That should keep the engine from flopping. Also, I would think that a throw out bearing noise would come from a lot further forward than this noise does. This one comes from right under the dash panel. That's why I was wondering/hoping that it could be the bearings behind that front cover on the trans and would save me from taking the input shaft out. Has anyone ever had those bearings go out?
 

If the throw out bearing (or pilot) was bad, the noise would be worse when the pedal is depressed. Since the noise stops with the pedal depressed, those bearings can be ruled out.
But I would still start the split at the bell housing. Easier that way.

Adrian
 
Could be the input shaft bearing for sure.Be sure to check the input shaft splines when you get this apart as they are bad to be about wore into also.The book is a must for sure and a helping hand doesn't hurt either.Careful saves money and time as you plan to build these engine mounts as they are bad to try to roll but nothing like a super A or that family for sure.
 
My plan on the mounts I'm building would be to keep the front stationary and move the rear away. Then disassemble from there. Does that sound right?
 
I spoke with the person who suggested that the input shaft could be removed without taking out the differential and the output shaft. He says he has done this many many times and that the key is to drive the front bearing and gear off of the input shaft so that you can gain clearance. It will then "roll right out" according to him. I guess we'll see how well I get along!
 

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