4020 converted to 12 v batterys ?

jdjerry

Member
I converted my 4020 to 12 volt. What shoud I put in it for batteries . One 12 volt, two 12 volt or two 6 volt. All winter it is plugged in but I use it for moving hay late it the fall and it sits in the field overnight and it can get down to zero or below (North Dakota). The 24 volt system it would start down to about 5 below without plugging it in but I was having charging problems so I changed it over.
 

Even if it will start down at -5F without plugging it in. Should you be trying to start it at below freezing temps without plugging it in?
The wear on the starter, batteries, charging system. The cylinder wall washdown and crankcase dilution with raw diesel fuel. The increased cylinder wall war and higher fuel consumption .
 
For an application where you need a lot of relatively short term but high amp starting current or what may be considered as "Cold Cranking Amps" I would go with two 12 volt batteries in parallel, and of course, you want to use identical matched batteries. That way if each battery was rated at say 1000 CCA, the two in Parallel could deliver 2000 CCA to the starter and when its cold you want a lot of CCA's to crank her over fast.

With two batteries in parallel the Amp Hours is additive, while voltage remains the same. With two batteries in series, the voltage is additive but the amp hours is NOT.

In addition with saddle mount batteries aren't they made/shaped to hold those long slender 12 volt batteries where such a battery may not be available in a 6 volt unit???

If the application were different such as in my RV where I don't need short burst very high current (like to start a big motor) but instead low current over a longggggggggg time and may discharge the batteries deeper, I went with true deep cycle 6 volt golf cart batteries in series. Then to increase my available energy storage capacity (Amp Hours) I added a second bank in parallel (now I have four 6 volt deep cycle batteries in series/parallel) for 460 amp hours of energy storage woooooooooo hoooooooooo that with my rooftop solar panels and MPPT charge controller means I am pretty much self sustained as far as 12 VDC use is concerned.

John T
 
And install a hydraulic pump destroking screw. Its the cheapest starting assist you will ever buy.
 
John: If you were to hook those 2 batteries in series and have 24 volts and 1000 amps, it would turn faster than in parallel. Right? Magnetic field comes from the atoms of the conductor excited by the voltage. That is why it will turn faster on less amps and more volts. A permanent magnet has no current or voltage, so the field comes from the atoms of the material.
 
YOUR STATEMENT

"John: If you were to hook those 2 batteries in series and have 24 volts and 1000 amps, it would turn faster than in parallel. Right?"

MY RESPONSE

I AGREE its just like if you apply 12 volts to a 6 volt starter it sure spins faster, BECAUSE more current flows which increases magnetic field strehght.

YOUR STATEMENT

"Magnetic field comes from the atoms of the conductor excited by the voltage."

MY RESPONSE

Heres my take and what I was taught at Purdue School of Electrical Engineering but its been a while so no warranty: I say a magnetic field is generated when current (flow of electrons) passes through a conductor. The current is caused because a voltage potential difference (emf) exists between two points and a conductor is present to carry electrons between the two potential differences. The higher the potential difference (more voltage difference) the more current (flow of electrons) meaning greater magnetic field strength.


YOUR STATEMENT

"That is why it will turn faster on less amps and more volts. A permanent magnet has no current or voltage, so the field comes from the atoms of the material"

MY RESPONSE

Id say it turns faster because the magnetic flux is greatly increased due to more current flow..

Its true a permanent magnet has no current or voltage just setting there, it just a hunk of iron basically. The North/South Magnetic Field is there because the hunk of iron was placed in a strong electromagnetic generated field which aligned the poles resulting in a degree of residual magnetism which is retained although no more current or voltage exists.

HOWEVER many typical older DC tractor starter motors use an electromagnetic field NOT Permanent Magnets. More current (as voltage increases) creates a higher magnetic field.

I try my best to help people on here but Im NOT into a long deep theoretical discussion about magnetism and complex physics mind you, that's beyond my pay scale and knowledge lol

John T Longggggg retired EE
 
You say It turns faster because the magnetic flux is increased due to more current flow. Think about it. It doesn't make sense cause you only have half as much available current to begin with. A slight change of voltage has a greater effect than a huge change in current. It is the voltage (pressure) that causes the atoms of the conductor to produce the magnetic field.
 
Unless Ohms Law has been changed I = V/R. Okay say for example only it was a 12 volt battery and R = 1 Ohm.

I = 12/1 = 12 amps.

Now change that to two 12 volt batteries in series so you have 24 volts and the same starter with R of 1 ohm.

NOW I = 24/1 = 24 amps

SO IF THE VOLTAGE IS DOUBLED FROM 12 TO 24 YOU GET TWICE THE CURRENT IF RESISTANCE STAYS THE SAME

Magnetic flux is created by current flow so if current is doubled there's more magnetic flux and the same motor will turn faster.

IF YOU DONT AT LEAST UNDERSTAND AND AGREE WITH OHMS LAW THERES NOTHING MORE I CAN DO TO HELP YOU, SORRY, I TRIED. Im NOT here to fight or argue only help and I tried.

Best wishes n God Bless

John T Retired Electrical Engineer
 
Also your tractor might start if one of the 12 volt batteries is dead or bad, but won't start with a bad 6 volt. chris
 
I am not here to argue with you or ohm's law. But where are all those extra amps coming from? In series you can only get as much as the weakest cell will produce. Just like a chain will only pull as much as it's weakest link. So even when you increase the volts, the amps stay the same unless you are getting something from nothing.
 
"So even when you increase the volts, the amps stay the same unless you are getting something from nothing. "

Whatever you say is fine, better tell the Ohm Law followers you discovered that...

Best Wishes

John T
 
Unfortunately, if two batteries are in parallel and one is dead, good luck on getting much out of what was previously a "good" one. Of course, if the dead one hasn't already discharged the previously good one, you have a chance...

John T
 
Yes I do, to get more amps YOU INCREASE THE VOLTAGE. I = V/R. More volts = more amps. Go argue with Ohms predecessors if you can prove he was wrong, I'm sure they will be anxious to see your theory.

But hey don't feel bad, the vast majority of folks who arent engineers or technicians and are electrically challenged like you don't get it either (even something as simple as Ohms Law), so its nothing to be ashamed of, you're fine.

Best wishes n God Bless you

John T (No offense and with all due respect, I still stand by Ohms Law I = V/R in the meantime until its proven wrong)
 
But where are all those extra amps coming from?????? As you may know, I am not highly educated, but I do keep an open mind. Have been working on this stuff for over 50 years. Another example that doesn't hold water. If you change a motor from 110 to 220 the amps should double too. But no it only uses half. Does the resistance change? Same motor with the same windings. Fun chat, at least we are keeping it civil.
 
[qu ote="jdjerry"](reply to post at 00:34:16 10/01/14) [/quote] I took my old batteries (one year old strongbox) in and had them tested. They were weak and I will put the new 12v batteries in today and see how it spins over now.
 
YOUR QUESTION

"But where are all those extra amps coming from?????? "

The "extra" amps are coming from the "extra" voltage.

One 12 volt DC battery and a one ohm resistor,,,,,I = V/R,,,,,I = 12/1 = 12 Amps

Two 12 volt DC batteries in series = 24 volts,,,,,,,,,I = V/R,,,,,,,,,,I = 24/1 = 24 amps

MORE VOLTS = MORE AMPS INTO THE SAME LOAD THATS WHERE THOSE EXTRA AMPS ARE COMING FROM!!!!

I agree its still fun chatting with you and wish I could help but I give up lol Its IMPOSSIBLE to impart an engineering education and 40 years of experience in a few sentences here (so don't feel bad whatsoever) but I have tried to help. Its just second nature to an electrical engineer, although to non engineers or electerical techs its like Rocket Science lol

Yall take care now

John T I try my best but I cant teach what took me years to learn to a lay person in a few sentences ITS IMPOSSIBLE for a teacher and likewise impossible for the student, sorry
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top