1947 B Restoration Problems

Bob Watkins · Sep 15, 2014

This is my 1st restoration and I have had other posts. Thanks for all your help!
I am now at the point I am trying to get the tractor started. It ran before and I did not rebuild the engine.
Carburetor Schebler DLTX 67 - I didn"t have gas flow, a line was plugged. Then I had sediment bowl leaks, replaced, then Carb bowl leaks. I have many new parts and no leaks with a good gas flow.
Wico XH 1042 Magneto - I had weak yellow spark so I have new points(gapped at .015), new condenser, new cap, new gaskets, new plugs (gapped at .030), new plug wires. I now see no spark at all! There was no gasket where the mag fit to the governor. I made one and put it there. Should I have not?
How do I check the mag and see if it"s working correctly?
Thanks for your help!
Bob

Mike M · Sep 15, 2014

You may need to run some clean white paper between the points to clean oil or residue off of them. That may get your spark back.

41B-boy · Sep 15, 2014

Mike may well be right here. However, I was taught MANY years ago by my Grandfather, to use a dollar bill. Seems the linen content in the bill offers a bit of soft abrasion and also is, perhaps, more absorbent.
Just a thought.
BTW, where are the pictures, eh?

Bob

Carlyle hoffman · Sep 15, 2014

The case GASKET should be there, thickness wont make any diff, tractor ran before, very loud inpulse snap, try theold condenser again or buy another, today they are junk, you might buy a couple to get a good one. Where at are you cking for SPARK? Hold no 1 wire against the mag cover screw while one turns it over. some

Jethro Lilley · Sep 15, 2014

If the comments from these guys doesn't create a blue spark then try to pull it off with another tractor. If it starts... then you may have an impulse problem in the mag... the spring may not flip it fast enough to create a good blue spark for starting but run fine when pulled.

Mark-Ia · Sep 15, 2014

You might reinstall the old condensor, new ones are known tobe bad right out of the box. and make sure the spring on the points isn't grounding somewhere or any connections touching where they don't belong.

JDJACK · Sep 15, 2014

I know a Bob Watkins, where are you located?

Bob Watkins · Sep 16, 2014

Thanks everyone for your help! I got it started yesterday. I took the mag off the tractor and worked on it on the bench. I re-gapped the points and the spark plugs.It was easier bench testing the mag for spark with a wire in the number 1 hole and grounding it to the housing to check the spark while turning the (I don't remember what it's called) on the back of the mag counter clockwise.

Another question - Under the motor there is a petcock? What is that for and why is it leaking oil?
Thanks,
Bob

Wemedeeres · Sep 16, 2014

Another question - Under the motor there is a petcock? What is that for and why is it leaking oil?
Thanks,
Bob

There should be two of those petcocks down there. They are for compression release in case you had to hand start it. Since they're on the bottom of the cylinder chances are there will be a little oil weeping though them. ( if that's not normal Im in trouble because my A does the same thing)

Bob Watkins · Sep 16, 2014

Bellefontaine, Ohio

Bob Watkins · Sep 16, 2014

Ok, Thanks everyone! Done with that. Got it started but it revs up then almost dies, then repeats, over and over. I tried adjusting the load and idle needles but no help. Got any ideas?

Also I had it running long enough to get hot enough that the manifold was turning brown. yet no coolant movement? I stuck a thermometer in the coolant and the needle didn't even move? Radiator is full of 50/50 coolant & water. Got any ideas.

Thanks again,
Bob

Wemedeeres · Sep 16, 2014

(quoted from post at 14:52:38 09/16/14) Ok, Thanks everyone! Done with that. Got it started but it revs up then almost dies, then repeats, over and over. I tried adjusting the load and idle needles but no help. Got any ideas?

Also I had it running long enough to get hot enough that the manifold was turning brown. yet no coolant movement? I stuck a thermometer in the coolant and the needle didn't even move? Radiator is full of 50/50 coolant & water. Got any ideas.

Thanks again,
Bob

Did it run smooth before you started the restoration?.....check the simple things first, make sure the shaft from the governor to the carb isn't binding on anything, check the throttle shaft in the carb I had one one time that the butterfly stuck just a little when fully closed and when the engine surged while I was adjusting the carb it'd want to die out. Did you completely disassemble the carb and completely overhaul it, cleaning all the ports and secret passages as well as replacing worn parts?

As far as the coolant temp goes your exhaust manifold will get hot a lot sooner than your coolant will, the temp gauge on my A has a tough time climbing to 100 even after idling for a bit especially if the engine was cold when I started it.

Bob Watkins · Sep 17, 2014

I am sure the linkages are not binding on anything and the butterfly is not sticking. In the carb I replaced the throttle butterfly shaft & bushings, both needles, strainer & gasket, Bowl gasket, bowl nut and gasket, and nozzle. I did not put the felt on the butterfly shaft because at the time I didn't know it went there. I cleaned out both needle passages, there was a lot of fuzz in them. Shouldn't there be some sort of O-ring or something in the needle hole to keep it from being loose? The tractor did not do this before I started my restoration. I made my own strainer gasket as well as the bowl gasket and bowl nut gasket because when I ordered those parts they did not send gaskets? I soaked the whole carb (all old parts) in a pine-sol/water 50/50 solution for 48 hours for cleaning. I lubed the choke and it works fine. I am baffled? Is there something that needed cleaned or replaced besides what I have done?

I put 50/50 coolant/water in the NEW radiator. The coolant pipes were taken off and cleaned out, Hoses and clamps are new. Before I put them back on I flushed the coolant ports of the engine.
Thanks,
Bob

Wemedeeres · Sep 17, 2014

I'm guessing there's some crap in your carb that got missed or came loose and clogged a port after you soaked it. Did you remove all the little brass plugs and drill/clean out the secret passages? Did you remove the nozzle and clean that out? I've been down this road myself and its frustrating.

I know one thing it'd be easier to explain first hand with words what all to look for and point out trouble spots than to try explain through the keyboard. :lol:

Bob Watkins · Sep 20, 2014

Tractor runs, BUT! It revs then almost dies, then repeats, over and over. The butterfly valve with a rod connecting to the governor will close then open, again repeatedly. it did not do this before my restoration (it didn't run good but did not have this problem).
I have taken the carb off twice and looked for problems, found nothing. stopped at a JD Dealer on my way to the Farm Science Review in London, Ohio. There is a parts man there who has some Antique tractors. He told me to take out all the little brass screws in the carb because there is a passageway behind each and clean that out. I cannot get them out without drilling them! I soaked this entire carb in a 50/50 solution of pine sol and water before rebuilding.
I talked to some guys at the Two Cylinder Club tent at the FSR. They said it is probably the governor weights being stuck.
Why would either of these be the problem when they were not before my restoration?
I am fairly capable and can do most anything but am stumped.
Thanks Again,
Bob

Wemedeeres · Sep 20, 2014

The best thing to use to get those brass screws out is a little heat with the torch, heat them for a few seconds and let them cool down they should turn right out, if not heat again and repeat. I've done it many times and its a lot easier than drilling them out, that is if you haven't wrecked the ends of them.

Bob Watkins · Sep 21, 2014

Thanks, I'll try some heat. I think I have already ruined the screwdriver slot. Where can I find new screws?
Bob

NNP · Sep 21, 2014

The guys have you covered and the archives here will tell you pretty much everything on those carbs.

A governor 'hunting' usually points to a mixture problem, usually too lean, but too rich will do it too (too rich will be obvious, every 'hunt' it will belch black smoke.
There really is no shortcut. Those carb passages have to be cleaned. Those screws will come out with a little heat. gentle now, not too much.
take your time, with all carbs, you need all passages clean, but not enlarged. be gentle.

a clean carb and just as important, a clean supply of fuel feeding it.....just can't be stressed enough.
a swirling piece of debris settling in the wrong place will make a perfect running engine just 30 seconds ago, now run just awful.....

fixerupper · Sep 21, 2014

Run the throttle shaft on the carb by hand and see how slow you can get it to idle before it dies. It should idle so slow you can count the pops and then finally just give up and falter and die. If it dies quick when you get it down to maybe 500 or 600 RPMs or thereabouts, your idle circuit is too lean either from junk in a passage or misadjustment of the idle screw.

If it idles way down OK, take the throttle rod off of the carb and turn the throttle shaft by hand with the tractor not running. Is it absolutely smooth with no hint of catching through the whole rotation? It should be totally free. Nothing should be touching the throttle rod going from the governor arm to the carb. The smallest amount of rubbing somewhere will make it surge. I'm still betting on a plugged carb passageway. Let us know what you find. Jim

Wemedeeres · Sep 21, 2014

(quoted from post at 08:14:23 09/21/14) Thanks, I'll try some heat. I think I have already ruined the screwdriver slot. Where can I find new screws?
Bob

I might get booted from here for saying this but I've always done business with Roberts carburetor repair in spencer IA they carry the parts, specialty tools and even how to dvd's you need to do the job yourself or you can send them your carb and they'll go through it and test run it on their test engine to make sure it good to go before they ship it back to you.

Bob Watkins · Sep 22, 2014

Nothing is to even touch the rod? Maybe I have it connected wrong. I had to bend it to even connect it. I routed it through the hole on the gas tank mount. It had been a year since I took this apart. I sand blasted straightened and painted all the linkage. maybe I shouldn't have straightened? I have a drawing of the linkage connection in the shop book but it doesn't show the other things on the tractor that might be in the way?
Thanks,
Bob

Wemedeeres · Sep 22, 2014

It shouldn't be run through any holes nor should you have had to bend any of the rods.

Bob Watkins · Sep 24, 2014

I took some pictures of the route the linkage has to take between the governor and the carburetor. I see no other way other than through the hole in the gas tank mount. If there is please tell me what it is? This is one of the things I guess I should have paid more attention to when I took it apart but at that time I must have thought it was simple and apparent? Thanks for all your help! Bob

Bob Watkins · Sep 24, 2014

I used a dremel and cut new slots for the screw driver in the brass screws I tried to get out before and ruined the slot. I used heat and have all the screws loose. I found a kit on e-bay with all new brass screws, I ordered it. Cleaning the carb again including all those hidden places and we'll see what happens. Normally I would have thought of using heat? I am somewhat competent but I loose my confidence when I have to do things like take a carb off 3 times? LOL! I really don't know what I would have done on this project without this forum and all the help I have received from people here. Thanks just doesn't seem like enough! Bob

Wemedeeres · Sep 24, 2014

I'll have to admit it sure looks like that hole is where the rod is supposed to go through. None of my tractors are like that and I can't refer to my '43 for reference since that's laying on the shop floor in pieces and boxes at the moment and has been like that for a few years now lol.

I was leery at first of using heat myself as well, but it has paid off so many times since then that I have gotten very comfortable with using it. The biggest thing with using heat is patients and not rushing yourself or the part you are working on.

One last thing do you have the proper size drill bits to clean out the secret passages? Just a word of caution if you mess up and drill the holes out too big your carb is shot.

Bob Watkins · Sep 24, 2014

I have all the passages cleaned out and know where they go except one. I just used a piece of stiff wire, air, and liquid wrench, no drill. The one brass screw on the side of the main part that the bowl nut screws onto I have cleaned and can see inside it with a flash light but It bottoms out. I cannot see that it goes anywhere? with a flashlight I can see the sides all the way around and the bottom? Am I right about this one? Thanks again! Bob

Wemedeeres · Sep 24, 2014

Behind that brass screw is one of the "secret passages" that one is not very deep, if you have the idle needle out and shine your flashlight down the hole you should be able to see your wire if you poke it through the hole behind the brass screw.

If I can get the scanner at work figured out ill post a picture of the instruction sheet I have for cleaning those passages.

NNP · Sep 25, 2014

(quoted from post at 06:27:18 09/24/14) I took some pictures of the route the linkage has to take between the governor and the carburetor. I see no other way other than through the hole in the gas tank mount. If there is please tell me what it is? This is one of the things I guess I should have paid more attention to when I took it apart but at that time I must have thought it was simple and apparent? Thanks for all your help! Bob

ya, that's where it goes.
They take some tweaking sometimes because like the guys are saying, a gov to carb rod on any governed engine can't touch anything, and can't have any binding no matter how slight.
Don't forget the ends and their holes. no paint/rust on em there, and watch that cotter pin to make sure it doesn't bind or rub when assembled. Gentle on those ends and holes too. create some slop there or if they are badly worn, and you will still have hunt problems......

Bob Watkins · Oct 1, 2014

As you know I took the carburetor apart and cleaned out all the passageways. I ordered a new set of brass screws, and gaskets. I took my time putting it together and double checked everything to make sure it was right. I adjusted the linkage by the shop manual. I installed the carb and started the tractor. It still does the exact same thing it did before. It speeds up then slows down and nearly dies. Adjusting the idle needle makes no difference, even if completely closed. Adjusting the load needle makes no difference unless you close it and the tractor dies?
I would buy a new carburetor or one someone else rebuilt if I thought spending more money would fix the problem?
Could it be anything else besides the carburetor? Maybe the governor?
I can't believe I can't figure this out. I am not new at mechanical things. I was a Electro Mechanical Maintenance Technician at Honda of America Mfg. I do all the repairs and maintenance on my vehicles, motorcycle and lawn equipment.

1947 B Restoration Problems

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