Air Cleaner Blowing Oil

2510Paul

Well-known Member
I am working on a 3010 gas, it would not start and gas was constantly dripping out of the carburetor. The owner had been complaining of poor operation recently. The tractor has a history of dirt blocking the fuel path from the tank. (Compressed air blown backwards from the lift pump to the tank cleared the block.) A fuel line filter had been added about a year ago. This spring it seemed to start and run OK, opening the fuel jet made it run better. The tractor was used for raking hay this summer. As I said, operation had degraded recently. At the last shutdown the owner said there were flames coming from the exhaust that were actually a little hard to extinguish. I believe he also mentioned backfire. I need to confirm that as it may be important to what I am seeing.

OK, that is some background. Here are some actions and a question.

1. I sent the carburetor to Robert's Carburetor. It had a film of sooty material lining the entire inside, at least as much as I could see. I did not take it apart. Roberts acknowledged they got it.

2. From my initial call Roberts wanted me to do a compressor test and test the plugs, points, and wires, which I will do.

3. Today I removed the hood, the coil states there should be an external resistor, I cannot find it. Where should it be? I ordered a service manual but my 2510 manual shows it between the coil and the common node between the alternator and the dash light.

4. I observed the air cleaner has oil all over its intake and the side of the canister. See Pictures. Why might this be??? Oil level is correct. I removed the pipe leading from the air cleaner to the carburetor, the inlet to the pipe (leaving the air cleaner) is very clean. This surprised me, I thought I would see oil. The exit of the pipe leading to he carburetor is covered with the same sooty/oil material I found in the carburetor.

5. So maybe I answered my own question, perhaps a bad backfire pushed the oil out of the air cleaner. Is this possible?? There is enough dust on the oil it does not appear to be entirely recent.

Comments? Why would oil back out of the oil bath air cleaner? Any other comments as to what to look for. I am anxious to do a compression test now.
By the way, shining a light in the gas tank shows a nice clean silvery bottom. I did see a wire, a couple un-identifiable small dirt particles, and a kernel of corn.

Paul
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As to the air cleaner you have an intake valve hanging open which makes the given cylinder/ piston involved acting as an air compressor pushing air back through the head then manifold and then air cleaner. Pull the valve cover and see what is going on.
 
I ran a compression test just now:

Cylinder 4, 155#
Cylinder 3, 140#
Cylinder 2, 125# I had some leakage issue also around the test plug, fixed it but the reading did not change much
Cylinder 1, 140#

Conditions of test were:
1. All sparkplugs out
2. coil to distributor wire off
3. Transmission clutch still engaged
4. Carb. is not on tractor so intake is open
This tractor did not spin as I expected. I had a charger on the battery, I started fully charged and charged for about 15 minutes at 2 amps between tests. I bet it only spun at ~60 rpm judging from about one burst on the gauge per second.

Later I strapped the clutch to dis-engaged, it spun slightly faster and the last reading went to 150#.

Shall I still pull the valve cover? #2 is a concern given the difference but then given my slow speed it may be OK. What do you think? Anybody?

The 2510 service manual suggests I put some oil in the cylinder to see if the pressures go up. Up means rings, not up means valves. But then again what I have may be OK. Comments?

Paul
 
The valve issue may be intermittent which means it may not be bothering all the time. It looks like the hood is off so all you have is the cost of a valve cover gasket. I don't see how crankcase oil can push through the intake system all the way back to the oil bath air cleaner. In the very unlikely event you had a hole in the piston as a means to bring oil up into the head you should have next to no compression pressure registering in that cylinder.
 
Resistor may be the wire itself. Not sure though. I'd pull the valve cover and adjust the valves and see if any are tight. Rerun comp. Test and try a leak down test to see if air blows past rings or valves.
What carb. ? The alum. Marvel Schebler will never run good.
Also clean that air cleaner up. Hot high pressure washer flush until clean.
Our 4020 was like that. Cleaned it up and years later it may look that bad again as it does have oil blow out. I think back fires or afterrun after shut off may of happened.
 
I'll pull the cover tomorrow, Sunday.
Zenith Carburetor.
I will pull the air cleaner and pressure wash it with hot water.
How do I determine if air is leaking past rings or valves? The 2510 manual said to put oil in cylinder and re-run compression test. If compression increases it is the rings, if not it is the valves. Is this what you mean?
By the way, thanks for your response. Paul
 
Hey, thanks so much for your reply's. I will pull the valve cover tomorrow and check the valve settings. I only have the 2510 manual until I get my 3010 manual. At the top of this I will post another reply to add more information I have found out and ask for the specifications.

The oil is from the oil bath in the air cleaner, not the crankcase. As I indicated in another reply I will be taking out the air cleaner canister and cleaning the wire (or whatever it is) mesh in there.
Thanks again, Paul.
 
I have more information:
I talked to the owner about the flames coming from the muffler and the backfiring.
1. The flames from the muffler only occurred once, the last time it was shut off. The last time it was shut off a burning flame came from the muffler after the tractor was shut off. The owner had to physically cover it to cut off the air supporting the flame. After that the carburetor just dripped continuously. When I came to load this tractor it was still dripping from the carburetor. Banging on the carburetor did not help. I suspect the needle valve was stuck from a series of backfires and the soot that was left in the carb.

2. The owner tells me the tractor would intermittently backfire after it was shut off 15-20 seconds. This was intermittent but happened enough that he would sit in the seat to see if it would back fire. If he went to get off the tractor it would backfire about the time he was stepping down and scare him worse being closer to the muffler.
It is not clear to me what started the backfiring issue, the tractor ran fine earlier this summer. I wonder if the carburetor was overfueling the tractor, even after it was shut off and the fumes ignited from the heat of the engine. Or, could a sticky intake valve be open and fuel got in the cylinder to ignite. This does not make sense since I would think under normal conditions an intake valve could be open depending on cam position. The overfueling makes more sense.
Anyway, I am thinking the backfiring on occasion would backfire through the carburetor and air cleaner forcing air cleaner oil back out the intake. This would explain the oil and dust mixed together, that is, it happened many times over time and created the coating of dusty oil.
Could a backfire damage a valve rocker, etc.
Any more Comments on these or other theories?
Paul
 
Does anyone have the intake and exhaust valve settings for a 1962 3010? I have a manual on order. Paul
 
Yes if adding oil raises the compression then it is the rings.
You can put an air chuck on your compression gauge and pressure up the cylinder on compression stroke and listen for escaping air at intake,exhaust,crankcase.
 
I would say the engine was running on the rich side due to the carb problem and loaded up the combustion chamber and muffler with deposits. Just loafing along raking wouldn't put enough load on it to clear it out. The deposits would continue to burn after the tractor is shut off causing the flames and back firing. If it back fires with an intake valve open it would cause the oil from the air cleaner to be blown out.Get the carb rebuilt, and if possible run the tractor with a heavy load on it ( dyno,pulling a plow, or heavy disc to burn out the deposits. The carb will have to be adjusted for the load on the tractor, ie. lean it out if it is just used for raking,or richen it up if it doing heavy work. Also a couple gallons of hi test mixed in with a 1/2 tank of regular will show a noticeable improvement. Also putting the tractor under a heavy load every once in a while to "blow it out" would do it a world of good also.
 
You are getting very good advice on back-firing, but your last post is describing an 'afterfire', not a backfire.
totally different and different fixes.
I'm with the last poster, easy first.
fix the carb
a leaky carb (if you can get it started), most tractors will still run, especially working. but a too rich condition will load the exhaust
with fuel vapor that couldn't be burned. Turn it off, a few seconds later...bang
(letting a tractor idle for a bit after hard work, and turning it off at the lowest idle speed will stop some 'bangers')

unless a true backfire is coming out of the carb or blowing the air cleaner, I wouldn't be concerned at all about it being externally dirty.
oil vapor from vents and blow-by leaking here and there will be drawn towards the air cleaner. once it settles on it, it will 'creep'
Most of the old junk I buy, the aircleaner is a dirty mess. paint is nice after cleaning :)
 

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