four cylinder engine question

Richard in Bee · Sep 3, 2014

As an aside to the 3010 RCU thread, do all four cylinder engines, particularly diesel have balancers? I know the 3010/20 and 2510/20 engines do, but what about red, orange, blue and other engines?

D- · Sep 3, 2014

I think M Farmalls ran slow enough they didn't need them. A Cummins used in irrigation pumps don't have them but the sheet metal breaks up from vibration.
I think some of the Fords used a box like 3010/3020.

Dieseltech · Sep 3, 2014

The smoother running four cylinder engines do. MF 65, 165, and early 255 diesels used the Perkins A4-203 that did not use a balancer, while the 236, 248, 300, and 318 fours did in other tractors. All had a five inch stroke too. Brother used to complain to dad the 165 shook so bad at certain speeds he couldn't keep a radio on the fender set where he wanted it. Tractor was sure easy on fuel though.

Lee B · Sep 3, 2014

No is the short answer.

I did a 4 cylinder John Deere engine out of a Sullivan trailer type air compressor once that could have had two counter rotating balancer shafts in it but like some kind of an option they just were not there. So even among Deere alone, it's not a rule to live by. No matter what color, all inline 4s could use them however, if that was the next balance question.

jd2cylman · Sep 3, 2014

Most all Ford 4 cylinder engines have a balancer. Most of Ford's (and New Holland by default) small Ag and Industrial equipment used a 3 cylinder engine (gas or diesel). In tractors the 3 cyl engine was pretty solid, but in the skidsteer with rubber mounts, the engine moved all over the place. The good 4cyl had a large gear in the center of the crank that drove the balancer. I've never seen any lengthwise balancer shafts in Ford/New Holland/CNH engines.
The new Tier 4 engines developed by CNH/Fiat/Cummins/Iveco don't have a balancer. Interesting thing about the Tier 4 electronic engine: when you cut off one injector, there's hardly any miss or unbalance; the computer increases fuel and changes timing on the other cylinders to compensate. Very odd, and requires the computer to help diagnose.

Adrian

buickanddeere · Sep 3, 2014

(quoted from post at 21:11:05 09/03/14) As an aside to the 3010 RCU thread, do all four cylinder engines, particularly diesel have balancers? I know the 3010/20 and 2510/20 engines do, but what about red, orange, blue and other engines?

Depends on displacement and rpm. A small slow turning four can skimp on balancers but a large four can not.

Inline six cylinder diesels are popular for a reason. Per lb and per square ft of occupied area. They are the lightest, strongest, smoothest and most economical engine to build.

Tramway Guy · Sep 4, 2014

The balancer was an option on the Cummins 4b-3.9. Could be
installed by the distributor before shipment.
They were a must for vehicle applications, or for high RPM's.

ET · Sep 4, 2014

Back in my college days we learned that the engines with an odd number of cylinders are naturaly balanced and don't need any kind of harmonic balancer. That is why there are so many 3 cylinder engines out there. It always stuck with me because it just kinda strange.

jd2cylman · Sep 4, 2014

Kubota used to have a 5 cylinder diesel in the L4850 and L5450.
Great running engines and distinct sound.

Adrian

Richard in Bee · Sep 5, 2014

(quoted from post at 19:56:57 09/04/14)
Kubota used to have a 5 cylinder diesel in the L4850 and L5450.
Great running engines and distinct sound.

Adrian

Didn't Mercedes also? Just googled it and they did, as did Audi and VW.

nlastovi · Sep 5, 2014

There is a reasonably good article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance covering a variety of issues and elements related to "balance" (which, by itself, as a term is unspecific) and different sources/causes of vibration. A variety of different layouts/configurations are covered (the good old V8 gets an entire page of its own).

LarrySTN · Sep 5, 2014

They are only balanced on primary harmonics, but deffinately not on secondary harmonics. I have run several 3 cylinder diesel tractors and they certainly had vibration at certain rpms. the 3 cylinder gyrates from the cordscrew crankshaft (3 rod journals at 120 degrees off)

Whichester1 · Sep 5, 2014

Deere has a no balancer option but engineering has to approve it, it is for OEM applications only. All 4 cylinder Deere tractors have balancers to my knowledge. I have not been around Cummins for several years but when I was there the balancer bolted through the main bearing caps and required a deep sump oil pan. Engines without balancers cannot be solid mounted. Must be correctly engineered rubber isolators, brackets and frame rails.

four cylinder engine question

Richard in Bee

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