8650 low power and getting hot?

nitram148

Member
Hello,
I have been running an 8650 this summer, and it seems like it's not running right. We upgraded from a 4640 a few years ago, and have most of the same tillage equipment. We should not have any problem pulling these, but this tractor has never seemed to have the power. But, as you are using it, it will gain a little bit of power after 15-30 minutes of use. Sometimes enough to shift up a gear. We always let the tractor warm up before use, so this does not make any sense to me, but I am no tractor mechanic. We were told it was overhauled 2000 hours ago.

Also, we are now having an overheating problem when using it in the field. This could be a blocked radiator or something, but I was wondering if they were related. The water pump and thermostat have both been replaced. I think the fuel filters are on the newer side, but we can change those too.

Any one have any ideas about this tractor?

Thank you,
Martin
 
(quoted from post at 21:45:17 08/19/14) Hello,
I have been running an 8650 this summer, and it seems like it's not running right. We upgraded from a 4640 a few years ago, and have most of the same tillage equipment. We should not have any problem pulling these, but this tractor has never seemed to have the power. But, as you are using it, it will gain a little bit of power after 15-30 minutes of use. Sometimes enough to shift up a gear. We always let the tractor warm up before use, so this does not make any sense to me, but I am no tractor mechanic. We were told it was overhauled 2000 hours ago.

Also, we are now having an overheating problem when using it in the field. This could be a blocked radiator or something, but I was wondering if they were related. The water pump and thermostat have both been replaced. I think the fuel filters are on the newer side, but we can change those too.

Any one have any ideas about this tractor?

Thank you,
Martin

Overheating according to the gauge? Higher than normal or into the red?
Have you tested the gauge for accuracy? It has been subjected to vibration etc for approx 30 years.
Has somebody poured tap water into the cooling system instead of distilled water?
Are the fan pulleys worn? Are the fan belts worn? Are the belts tensioned according to the operator's manual?
Super tightening the fan belts to keep worn pulleys and worn belts from slipping will rapidly ruin bearings.
"rebuilt" is a subjective term. how many chassis hours?
If the rebuild was new rings on old pistons and using the old sleeves . In particular if the coolant had never been changed in 20+ years. A coolant system pressure test could be considered.

4640
Test Date: November 2 - 21, 1977
Type: Diesel 16-speed 2WD
PTO power (rated engine speed): 156.30 hp [116.6 kW]
PTO fuel use (engine speed): 10.0 gal/hour [37.9 l/hour]
Drawbar power (max): 130.33 hp [97.2 kW]
Drawbar fuel use (max): 9.8 gal/hour [37.1 l/hour]
Drawbar pull (max): 15,362 lbs [6968 kg]
Max pull gear: A-2
Test report: PDF file

8650
est Date: May 13 - 24, 1982
Type: Diesel 16-speed 4WD
PTO power (rated engine speed): 238.56 hp [177.9 kW]
PTO fuel use (engine speed): 15.4 gal/hour [58.3 l/hour]
Drawbar power (max): 219.93 hp [164.0 kW]
Drawbar fuel use (max): 15.4 gal/hour [58.3 l/hour]
Drawbar pull (max): 28,257 lbs [12817 kg]
Max pull gear: A2
Test report: PDF file
 
The temp is going into the red, and you have to stop to get it to cool down, down shifting is not enough. The gauge has not been tested, but the radiator did boil over once when in the red, so I believe it is accurate. Pulleys and belts were all new last year when we replaced the water pump. and re-tightened this year when we put on a new alternator. We use the mixed antifreeze from Deere almost always.

The tractor has 10,112 hours on it now. She no spring chicken, but I believe there is something else wrong besides age. Also, our old 4640 was a little tuned up, and ran at 177hp on the dyno. We are pulling a 5x5 undercutter, 28ft fallow master, and a 27ft disc. The disk is were we have the most trouble. She struggles with it in B2.
 
(quoted from post at 08:07:30 08/20/14) The temp is going into the red, and you have to stop to get it to cool down, down shifting is not enough. The gauge has not been tested, but the radiator did boil over once when in the red, so I believe it is accurate. Pulleys and belts were all new last year when we replaced the water pump. and re-tightened this year when we put on a new alternator. We use the mixed antifreeze from Deere almost always.

The tractor has 10,112 hours on it now. She no spring chicken, but I believe there is something else wrong besides age. Also, our old 4640 was a little tuned up, and ran at 177hp on the dyno. We are pulling a 5x5 undercutter, 28ft fallow master, and a 27ft disc. The disk is were we have the most trouble. She struggles with it in B2.

Is she blowing smoke?
Could be partly due to over advanced injection timing ?
Valve clearances checked ?
With a rebuild there could be all manner of weird assembly errors such as a cam out of time etc.
How are cold starts in the winter?
 

I don't believe there is much, if any smoke, except when you first let the clutch our, or put the tool into the ground. It clears up right away.
It needs to be plugged in to start in the winter if it is cold out (below freezing). But 3 out of 4 of our Deeres are this way, so that doesn't seem unusual to me.
Thanks for helping me with this.
 
Make sure the radiator is clean, inside and out,,the out side is easier checked of course, and they can "look" clean but still have a large percentage of the outer fins clogged up,, the big fan will pack bugs and seeds into the core tight, and blowing back out away from the engine taking your time with a long blow gun is one way of doing it. But if it were mine I would go through the trouble 9and it is a big job) and pull the radiator and send it to a good radiator shop, one that works on "big" cores, and have it gone through. As for the low power if all else seems good, such as clean air filter and basic engine vitals, check the fuel supply, blow back through the fuel line and check all fittings for tightness. I"m also wondering what your comparing the power to ??If you use to running a larger tractor that will make her feel a bit weak on the pull. But the fuel lines need looked at. A guy just hauled a 6405 75 miles to me because the engine would not rev to full RPM"s, after looking it over I saw where he had put a new fuel line on from the filter to the pump and it had a twist in it,, I re-worked the line to let it run correct and that"s all it took,, simple things can cause big problems..
a166572.jpg
 

Thanks
We had a mechanic come out and look at it last night. We are going to work on the radiator when we get a chance. We blew it out pretty good a few days ago, but didn't see much change.

On the power side, the mechanic didn't know what was going on either. He could not find anything obvious on the out side. I don't know what to do with it, but it did it again to me last night as I was using it. I let it warm up for about 5 mins, put the disk in the ground, and it would not pull it in B2, so ran B1 for a while, then I moved up to C1. After about 30 mins, It would pull it in C2, but that's too fast for this disk, so I moved back down to B2 for the rest of the night.
 
Check the ANAROID line from under the intake manifold to the top of the inj. pump . might have worn a hole in it at the clamp area . This lets manifold pressure move a diaphragm to let the fuel pump open up the rack for more fuel .
 

I do not know if the turbo was replaced during the overhaul. I will check the line under the hood too.

What is the top RPMs for this tractor? The max I can get it too is 2200. Is that right?
 

ok, I was just checking. This is the only tractor I have with a digital RPM gauge. But my swather and combine both have digital gauges and I can see up the 2350 or so. I thought maybe it was a little low.
 

It does sound like more than one problem.
As previously stated the turbo is likely worn out, the mechanical hemorrhoid is limiting fuel and the rad is plugged.
 
(quoted from post at 17:01:28 08/26/14)
It does sound like more than one problem.
As previously stated the turbo is likely worn out, the mechanical hemorrhoid is limiting fuel and the rad is plugged.

b&d
What is your definition of a mechanical hemorrhoid???? Are you referring to this FUEL INJECTION PUMP ANEROID which IMHO is far from mechanical such as the 30 series
mvphoto10457.gif
 

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