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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

24 volt delco starter 1113801 compaired to delco 1113830

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Stan Sarnacki

08-05-2014 12:57:48
216.220.239.14



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I am replacing my delco 1113801 24 volt starter with a delco 1113830, which was the upgrade and the solenoid on the 1113830 has a copper bar connected to the side terminal on the starter, but on my delco 1113801 starter this connection was a cable and it went to the terminal on the end of the starter. The negative battery connection is supposed hook up to the solenoid in the John Deere wiring schematic and when the start switch is pushed that completes the path through the solenoid to the end post on the starter. The delco 1113830 starter that I got from a remanufact shop came with the solenoid having a copper bar connected to one side going to the side post of the starter not the end post. Do I have to make a change to wire this correctly?

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Pete in MD

08-06-2014 10:30:19
108.3.132.201



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 Re: 24 volt delco starter 1113801 compaired to delco 1113830 in reply to Stan Sarnacki, 08-05-2014 12:57:48  
Stan,
I just emailed you SB 268.
Pete



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Pete in MD

08-05-2014 19:19:49
108.3.132.201



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 Re: 24 volt delco starter 1113801 compaired to delco 1113830 in reply to Stan Sarnacki, 08-05-2014 12:57:48  
Stan,
I have Service Bulletin# 268, that John T. mentioned, on my computer documents file. Unfortunately, I can't get it to post in a reply to your post.
If you'd like a copy of it, send me an email with your regular email address. I'll send you a new email with the bulletin as an attachment.
My email is open.
Pete



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John T

08-05-2014 18:33:30
216.249.72.121



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 Re: 24 volt delco starter 1113801 compaired to delco 1113830 in reply to Stan Sarnacki, 08-05-2014 12:57:48  

Hi Stan, for convenience I posted a wiring diagram which may or may not help??

Not being there I'm trying to visualize what your post says but that is a bit difficult so I will just discuss a few basics and maybe we can figure it out. Much of this you likely already know but no harm in stating it maybe it will help others or help you and I understand it. Lets discuss this n see where it takes us....GIVE ME SOME FEEDBACK

1) As you seem to be aware, that 24 volt portion and its devices (Starter and Generator) are two wire 24 volt isolated floating off frame ground devices and NOT POSITIVE GROUND as has been mistakenly (according to all John Deere diagrams and manuals and service bulletins and actual tractors at least) posted on this Forum.

2) Therefore, the starter must have TWO BIG POSTS not one and frame ground serves as the other like on a 6 or 12 volt tractor.

3) There is 24 volts from the POS of one battery and the NEG of the other (12 + 12 in series unless it has four sixes, same reasoning) so we have to get that 24 onto the 2 big starter posts BUT ONLY WHEN THE SOLENOID PULLS IN (connects its 2 big in and out terminals together)

4) Far as I'm aware, that starter, being an electromagnetic field type and NOT a permanent magnet starter, will still turn the same direction regardless of Polarity i.e. if the big battery cables were reversed it will still turn the same direction.

5) THEREFORE its my best educated guess NOT BEING THERE SO NO WARRANTY as long as one of the big battery cables wires to one of the starter posts, and the other gets to the other starter post ONLY VIA THE SOLENOID WHEN IT ACTIVATES AND CLOSES ITS CONTACTS IT WILL STILL WORK

IE YOU SHOULDNT HAVE TO REWIRE IT TO MATCH THE OLD, PROVIDED THE ABOVE RULES STILL APPLY... One starter post to one battery cable, the other big cable goes first to the solenoid then its output goes to the other big starter post THATS 24 VOLTS WHEN SOLENOID PULLS IN

6) NOTE AND CAVEAT However, if we have to take the Solenoids coil into account, remember its also a 2 wire 24 volt isolated off ground and floating device (Also NOT Positive Ground) and to work it needs (when starter button is depressed) the 2 big opposite polarity cable voltages (24 volts) to be applied to its 2 small terminals AND IF IT GETS ONE SIDE OF ITS POWER OFF A BIG CABLE TO THE STARTER, THE OTHER SMALL TERMINAL MUSTTTTTTTTTT BE RECEIVING ITS POWER OFF THE OTHER. Those A & B feeds are available up at the dash and all I'm saying is it needs to be the 24 volts that gets to the solenoids small activation terminals.

OTHER NOTES: I have attended electrical engineer/tech BuickandDeeres excellent 24 volt Seminar Workshops and consider him most knowledgeable on the 24 volt system HOPE HE CHIMES IN HERE. Pay attention to his inputs is my advice

ALSO I consider TxJim as very sharp on the Deere 24 volt system and HOPE HE ALSO CHIMES IN HERE. Also pay attention to his inputs.

For an accurate, comprehensive explanation and pictures and diagrams and testing and troubleshooting info available on the John Deere 24 volt system, I recommend you consult Official John Deere Publication Service Bulletin No. 268, written by John Deere NOT by myself or lay persons or non engineers. Don't take my word for any of this, see what John Deere has to say and look at their diagrams and manuals and testing tips.

AGAIN NO WARRANTY NOT BEING THERE, this may be right or it may be wrong Im NOT saying it is or it isn't, its only my best educated good faith attempt to answer your question, take or leave it at your own peril, but when all is said and done, Id trust in what John Deere has to say (Service Bulletin 268) instead of anyone else including myself an electrical engineer.

Best wishes, God Bless all of you

John T

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Tx Jim

08-06-2014 03:22:22
69.35.160.116



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 Re: 24 volt delco starter 1113801 compaired to delco 1113830 in reply to John T, 08-05-2014 18:33:30  
John T

I think you covered the subject as good or better than I could have done. I think aftermarket starter should attach without changing any wires.



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John T

08-06-2014 04:55:44
216.249.72.121



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 Re: 24 volt delco starter 1113801 compaired to delco 1113830 in reply to Tx Jim, 08-06-2014 03:22:22  
Thanks for the input Jim, yep I dont see it making any difference as to which cable gets to which starter post as it will still turn the same direction in my opinion so no rewire should be required.

John T



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Stan Sarnacki

08-06-2014 05:33:10
216.220.239.14



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 Re: 24 volt delco starter 1113801 compaired to delco 1113830 in reply to John T, 08-06-2014 04:55:44  
JohnT & TXJim
Thank you for your input, I was mostly concerned with the rotation of the starter if the two posts were interchanged. I think I understand the 24 volt system and I have all the manuals for my 730 along with the wiring diagrams. JohnT I would like to look at the bullitin that you mention, so here is my e-mail address stan.sarnacki@oldtownff.com. Thank you again for the help!



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John T

08-06-2014 05:40:38
216.249.72.121



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 Re: 24 volt delco starter 1113801 compaired to delco 1113830 in reply to Stan Sarnacki, 08-06-2014 05:33:10  
The other poster also said he would e mail it. I have it in PDF Adobe Format so if possible to copy I will also try to e mail it but no warranty, Im not that good on PDF files grrrrrrrr lol

What I like about Service Bulletin 268 is ITS A JOHN DEERE PUBLICATION versus some non engineers opinion.

John T



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Stan Sarnacki

08-05-2014 13:02:19
216.220.239.14



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 Re: 24 volt delco starter 1113801 compaired to delco 1113830 in reply to Stan Sarnacki, 08-05-2014 12:57:48  
Sorry, I forgot to mention that this is for a John Deere 730 diesel tractor!



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