4040 hydrolics overheat

tomcollins

New User
I have a 4040 pulling a 7300 4 row planter with vacum pump.after a bit of running the oil and engine temp runs high.we have rebuilt the outlets on the tractor very little change any help would be great.
 
How are you powering your vacuum pump ? and those have a rather small trans oil cooler so you need to be sure it's good and clean, (but I'm sure you already checked that out) when ever you need to meter the flow to maintain a particular pump speed it will heat the oil up...and what transmission do you have?
 
(quoted from post at 09:30:59 07/16/14) I have a 4040 pulling a 7300 4 row planter with vacum pump.after a bit of running the oil and engine temp runs high.we have rebuilt the outlets on the tractor very little change any help would be great.

How high is high? Do you have an an actual temp in degree's F . I have seen operators panic when a gauge moves from 1/2 way in the green portion to 3/4 of the way across the green portion. And is still several widths of the needle away from the red.
More likely than not the fan belt is slipping on the fan pulley. A tractor of that age, hours and exposure to dust . they will wear the pulley even if the belt tension was kept in spec. Belts are mostly tightened after they noticbly slip. By that time the pulley grooves are worn and the belt glazed.
Don't bother ultra tightening the belt until slippage is solved. Soon a new alternator and water pump bearing will be required if tensioning is excesive.
Running the tractor at part throttle or full rpms?
Oil cooler fins tend to be plugged with oily mud and bent from somebody using a high pressure water jet.
What kind of control valves on the system?
 
this tractor has a quad range trans,oil cooler and radiator are clean.We have checked the belts tension is good so are belts.The outlets have all new o-rings,and componints internally that help somewhat,but still overheats.Now when i say overheats it will get in the red,also when the planter is engaged puts a slight load on the engine.The rpms are runing about 16,1700 when plantig.Thought it might be my planter motor so we put a hydrolic pump spray rig on same tractor same results.
 
(quoted from post at 10:55:32 07/16/14) this tractor has a quad range trans,oil cooler and radiator are clean.We have checked the belts tension is good so are belts.The outlets have all new o-rings,and componints internally that help somewhat,but still overheats.Now when i say overheats it will get in the red,also when the planter is engaged puts a slight load on the engine.The rpms are runing about 16,1700 when plantig.Thought it might be my planter motor so we put a hydrolic pump spray rig on same tractor same results.

Run the rpms at 2100. 1600-1700 isn't going to save any worthwhile fuel or wear. Loosing about 1/3 of the cooling airflow doing that.
Viscous fan clutch or solid drive? Pull on a fan blade until the belt slips. It's possible the grip between the pulley and belt isn't as good as it appears.
Which way is the scv set? For double acting or one way cylinder?
Is the oil flow throttled at the scv or at the hydraulic motor?
 
What vacuum level are you running on your planter? I have a 1760 planter on a late 4020 running around 20 inches of vacuum with 40-cell plates. The transmission temperature will seldom go above halfway. I am probably running the hydraulic motor at about 3/4 speed. The only way to truly know if your cooler is clean is to slide it out and clean it with both air and something to cut the oil film on it, if there is any (and usually there is). It is amazing what dirt you can get out of a radiator/condensor/cooler after you think it is clean. Put a light behind them and see for sure. The tractor should handle your planter just fine. Mike
 
I also run my tractor around 1700-1800 rpm. No heating issues from the engine or transmission. Do you have the flow valve wide open on the tractor? It should be, and then set the motor speed with the dial valve on the planter plumbing. If your flow valve is not open you add another flow restriction which can impart heat to the oil. Mike
 
(quoted from post at 13:49:03 07/16/14)
Run the rpms at 2100. 1600-1700 isn't going to save any worthwhile fuel of wear.

b&d
I disagree on lower rpm's not saving significant fuel & wear. I have rd baled with my 4255 @ 1800 engine rpm's for years with no adverse affects. JD advertised those engines of that era as variable rpm engines. Any rpm's between 1500 & 2400 was acceptable to JD.
 
Take the plug out in the back housing and dump the return oil back in the trans instead of the outlets.
 
I am running my flow control at about 3/4 open the motor on the planter does not have flow control.We have double checked radiator and belts this tractor has been running 15 foot bushhog,and 5 bottom semi mount breakplow with no problems all day long.It also has a turbocharger,which was installed several years ago.It also has this overheating problem with the spray rig aswell.
 
We will try this tomarrow,sounds like a good idea,because both lines are pluged in the outlets.Thanks and will give an update.
 
(quoted from post at 16:02:14 07/16/14) Take the plug out in the back housing and dump the return oil back in the trans instead of the outlets.

WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,
WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,

Do not know how the hydraulic system works?
 

The return line has to be connected to an SCV set for double acting cylinders. If set for single acting the oil will be dumped to sump. This starves the front pump AND reduces oil flow through the cooler.
Oil can also be returned via a T in the rockshaft return line or a ported filter cover.
txjim has a photo of a 4020 with the simple and economical "T" oil return.
 
Baling hay is in no way loading and heating the hydraulic oil like a hydraulic motor does.

4040's are built with a powerful hydraulic system. A 2000 Series Pump in either 50cm3 and 30gpm or 65cm3 with 40gpm.
If moving 20gpm at 2250psi, that requires approx 30HP to pump that oil and approx 2KW of heat generated while pumping. The vacuum motor will also add approx 2KW of heat to the oil as well. That accumulates into a lot of btu's to dissipate. Plus transmission heat and other tractor loads such as steering.
 
(quoted from post at 18:53:26 07/16/14) Baling hay is in no way loading and heating the hydraulic oil like a hydraulic motor does..

That's correct BUTT you also stated running engine at lower rpm's wouldn't save fuel & wear.

WRONG,WRONG,WRONG

JD advertised the engines in question as variable speed engines!!!!!!!!!
 
Read it again. I said it isn't going to save any worthwhile fuel or
wear.
If the hydraulics are overheating due to reduced airflow
through the cooler. That is going to cost more than 1/4 of a
gallon per fuel savings per hour.
 
(quoted from post at 10:02:21 07/17/14) Read it again. I said it isn't going to save any worthwhile fuel or
wear.

Ones opinion of worthwhile can vary from one country to another!! :wink:
JD officials stated it saved significant fuel & wear on the engine. My JD 4255 uses a little over 3 GPH baling 4X5.5 rd bales @ 1800 engine rpm's. I'd call 7.2 GPH down to 3+ GPH significant savings!!
mvphoto9221.jpg
 
(reply to post at 11:17:09 07/17/14)

I have no idea where your 3gpm number is from?
The 4040 made 90HP with a tail wind helping using 6.5gph. Probably making 70HP and lugging at 1600-1700rpm. I don't see saving at best 1/2gph over making 70HP at 2200rpm.
Plus they have reduced cooling air flow through the cooler to only 77% of capacity.
I'll wager a beer that it won't take much of a tug on a fan blade tip to spin the fan pulley under that belt.
If they didn't read the manual and were using the #1 scv on single acting. They effectively bypassed the hydraulic cooler.
 
It's not very likely a 4040 running at a medium speed is going to lug down with a 4-row planter. I pull 12 with a late 4020. The tractor has to have a plugging issue on the cooler/radiator or worn pulley grooves in the water pump. My tractor keeps the oil cool just fine at that speed. Running wide open with a planter is not necessary given it is a light load, at least with only 4 rows. Mike
 

I have no idea where your 3gpm number is from?
[/quote]

It's fairly simple it comes from rd baling 15 hrs and filling fuel tank back up from a portable tank with a gallon measuring meter that reads 48 gallons when 4255 tank is full again.
 
(quoted from post at 06:25:07 07/18/14)
I have no idea where your 3gpm number is from?

It's fairly simple it comes from rd baling 15 hrs and filling fuel tank back up from a portable tank with a gallon measuring meter that reads 48 gallons when 4255 tank is full again.[/quote]

How does a 4255 loafing along bailing hay compare to a 4040 lugging at 1700rpm?
 
(quoted from post at 08:43:53 07/18/14)

How does a 4255 loafing along bailing hay compare to a 4040 lugging at 1700rpm?

How is pulling a 4 row planter considered lugging with a 90 HP tractor by you while pulling a rd baler by 120 HP is loafing??? JD A's pulled 4 row planters years ago.
 
(quoted from post at 11:27:58 07/18/14)
(quoted from post at 08:43:53 07/18/14)

How does a 4255 loafing along bailing hay compare to a 4040 lugging at 1700rpm?

How is pulling a 4 row planter considered lugging with a 90 HP tractor by you while pulling a rd baler by 120 HP is loafing??? JD A's pulled 4 row planters years ago.

At 1600-1700 and geared up traveling faster than the A.The 4040 is much heavier than the A and requires more power to just haul it's self around.The A wasn't driving a hydraulically driven vacuum fan.
 
(quoted from post at 12:24:15 07/18/14)

At 1600-1700 and geared up traveling faster than the A.The 4040 is much heavier than the A and requires more power to just haul it's self around.The A wasn't driving a hydraulicly driven vacuum fan.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm aware that an A wasn't hydraulically powering a vacuum pump but a 4040 has almost 3 times the A's HP. PS: it's hydraulically not hydraulicly

Glen it would shock me if a nuclear electrolysis(sorry electrician) such as yourself has ever baled a rd bale of hay!!
 
(quoted from post at 13:59:28 07/18/14)
(quoted from post at 12:24:15 07/18/14)

At 1600-1700 and geared up traveling faster than the A.The 4040 is much heavier than the A and requires more power to just haul it's self around.The A wasn't driving a hydraulicly driven vacuum fan.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm aware that an A wasn't hydraulically powering a vacuum pump but a 4040 has almost 3 times the A's HP. PS: it's hydraulically not hydraulicly

Glen it would shock me if a nuclear electrolysis(sorry electrician) such as yourself has ever baled a rd bale of hay!!

I suppose a 4050 M4WD and a 4x6 JD round baler of pre-kicker vintage doesn't count ?
Flat lander like you would drop a bale and wonder why it rolled down hill through the fence and into the creek.
Actually a 309A inter provincial , OPG nuclear shift control tech , confined space monitor, gas tester, radiation green man, fire captain with the high angle rescue, hazmat, advanced 1st aid. Passed the fire Fighter fitness test at at York University as well.
 
(quoted from post at 14:42:50 07/19/14)
I suppose a 4050 M4WD and a 4x6 JD round baler of ore-kicker vintage doesn't count ?
Flat lander like you would drop a bale and wonder why it rolled down hill through the fence and into the creek.
Actually a 309A inter provincial , OPG nuclear shift control tech , confined space monitor, gas tester, radiation green man, fire captain with the high angle rescue, hazmat, advanced 1st aid. Passed the fire Fighter fitness test at at York University as well.

Then I guess with all your nuclear credentials you should know that bare minimum HP for a JD 4X6 rd baler is 65 pto hp??????
 

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