Two cylinder tractor size

DavidT1

Member
Hello,
I was curious from the farmers that used them or do still use them, what size two cylinder JD you would get for up to 200 acres of tillable land mostly small grains. Say if you are doing most of the work alone and have about a week to work on it. Would be disking or chisel plowing not Moldboard plowing. Mostly curious what size people did it with or what they would use now days to get it done. Thanks!!!
 
It depends on the soil type. Lighter loamy soils and sands allow a given horsepower tractor to pull wider implements and the improbability of soil clodding reduces the number of trips across a field. If you have light loamy soil that may only require two trips it is possible to maybe get by with a 730 though it most likely make for some long days. An 830 would accomplish more but good ones are expensive and the parts availability are not what the row crops are. Another thing to consider is the weather. There are soils here in the Finger Lakes that can be worked 1 hour after a 1 inch rain and there are soils clay and otherwise that a 1 inch rain may put you out of the field for the better part of a week.
To be honest unless you have ideal soils that minimize tillage trips and are not seriously impacted by the weather I would look at a tractor over 100 horsepower which eliminates the 2 cylinders. You can look up unit factoring to calculate hours needed to perform field operations on some extension websites or if you are good at math and know how to convert units of measure you can do it yourself. The biggest thing to remember for operations such as plowing, disking, field cultivating, etc. that you are not 100 percent efficient on an hourly basis. Time is lost turning on headlands, time to eat, bathroom, etc. At best you are 90 percent efficient and on moldboard plowing you might be 80 percent or less. Take some time and do some math based on the implements available for this project or job.
 
My preliminary calculations using a 13 foot implement traveling at 4 MPH does not leave any room for breakdowns never mind being rained off if you are doing 200 acres in a week. If you are not used to running a two cylinder for long durations then operator fatigue will be another issue. Being able to use a 15 to 18 foot implement running at 5 plus MPH makes for an easier week but still long. Think long and hard plus get the calculator, pencil, and paper out on your table or desk.
 
I think NY 986 gives good advice. However, FWIW, and completely anecdotal, my Granddad worked 220 acres in Arkansas for more years than I can remember w/ 2Cyls. He had a 70D that he loved to death, but his favorite "everyday" machine was a gas 630. He used to say he could feed the country w/ his 630 because it did everything he ever needed to get done.

The replies you get will be interesting to see...

Bob
 
Can you spread this tillage work out so you do some in the spring and some in the fall. Are you thinking no-till on anything? What small grains are you thinking? If wheat is one crop and it is winter wheat then time for it is in the fall. Around here wheat is sown after beans and wheat stubble is worked in the fall for corn for the next spring and most of the tillage is done in the fall. Are you thinking soybeans and will they be planted in narrow rows or sown with a no till drill right in cornstalks. Also have more than one tractor. You can then hire some help or maybe you have family help.
 
A good 830 can be had for less $ than a 100hp tractor, do just as much work, just as fast, & on HALF the fuel. If it were me, I'd find 2 good R's & make a tandem hitch, or find one to buy. That's 100+ hp & with duals it's 8 traction tires, all for 4 gallons per hr max. This could be accomplished for $10k. & work circles around a turbo'd 4020 or any 100hp 2wd machine on half the fuel. Lots of R's have Been tandem hitched, power steering, cabs with AC. Down side is you can't put a loader on it & speed is limited to only 4 working gears, 2,1/8 mph, 3,1/3mph, 4,1/4mph, or 5,1/3. You essentially have a 4wd tractor with 100hp, 832 CUbic inches & an 8" stroke so gobs of torque. At full load you can only burn 4 gallons per hr with it. If you saved 2 gallons per hr over a single tractor & have less slippage you're up $10/hr plus.
 
I'll get lynched,but as somebody who used a 730 diesel as my main tractor for a while,try an 830 or something. They're a beautiful tractor to look at,but they pushed the 2 cylinder too far on those 730s and they knew it.
 
Any good 830 I have seen has been advertised for above 10K. I saw a pretty good IH 966 sell for 7,500 dollars just a couple of weeks ago. You are correct that the 830's have some merits worth considering. If it were me I would just make it simple and get a 966 or 1066 or since this is a JD board a 4230 or 4430 thought they price out higher.
 
Randy, just wondering how it was to sit 8 or 10 hours or more on your 730 and if it was more tiring than other tractors?
 
If your mind is set on a two cylinder, I would find a good 720 or 730. the 30 series JD's were not the greatest, motor wise . No low end torque at all. I had one. Think about a three point tractor, even if you don't need it right now. At one point in time you will.
 
I would agree with Mr. Lund & this is coming from a guy who still farms with many 2cyls..
As for draw bar pull the 730 & 830 are as good
& more efficient than many tractor that size.
As for PTO use Deere reached their limits or
I guess surpassed smooth PTO operation. I believe
75 to 100 horse 4wd is all we need to run the 300+ acers we run around on for a big tractor.
if the 2cyls had diff. lock & better cabs avail,
they might be more popular, but they Don't. We
still use them & thats because we can keep them going rather cheaply.
 
Those 30 series deeres are way over rated especially for tillage IMO & red or green you're gonna burn double the fuel of a 2 cyl. I've seen lots of 820's & a few good 830's for under ten, 820's usually bring 5-8k around here. The R's are older but have a far superior/reliable pony, live pto/hydraulics & parts are plentiful, cuz they made a lot more & they never break or wear out. The R is half the price to buy also, but for power steering you need char-Lynn style or a tandem hitch cuz they never had P.S. All the 720/730's are shot unless you buy a $12,000 trailer queen & can't pull a penny more than an R. But you do gain an option of 3point. But They also don't have a cab option.
 
75 HP will NEVER be as much work as 100 HP. Saying that a 75 horse tractor can do as much work as 100 horse in the same amount of time is like saying that $75,000 is the same amount as $100,000 and will buy just as much stuff.

Horsepower is by definition the amount of energy needed to lift 550 lbs, one foot, in one second. That means that 75 Horsepower will not lift as many pounds in one second as 100 horse tractor.
 
We farmed 110 acres with a 70D great tractor, we also had other wagon tractors. Spending 10 hrs on the 70 you will want ear plugs, but its a matter of state of mind. I cut 100 acres of hay with a DC case and 469 New Holland haybine. I loved it but sure neighbors laughed when they were in the next field with the self-propelled unit. I wonder if they ever figured out what it cost in machinery to make a bale of hay
 
we got 160 acres most of its old growth timber but we would do 9000 squair bales a year with 2 jd A'S jd 50 and a 350 farmall diesel, new Holland kicker with 8 old wagons on around 40 acres of HAY field new Holland mower we was ruuning 45 bread cows for feeders at one time grow 4 acres in bloody butcher corn, LEASEING 150 acres of 100 year old grown up wooded up farm land for grazing for 65$ a year and keep the fence built, late 80s hit my uncle got a 57 jd 820 and a round baler,
 
How much time do you have? If you are full time farming it you can get by with 40 or 50 HP and small equipment. If you are working a side job and farming evenings/weekends 100 hp and equipment around 10-14 ft. wide is what you want.
 
Not really. It was a comfortable tractor to drive. Nice seat and suspension,steering wheel placement was good,enough leg room.
 
Take an 830 & go side by side in the field with a 4020 (94hp) then tell me that. I have. And I know several others that have. The 94 hp is only there at or near rated rpm & as soon as it pulls down just a wee-bit, it's gone. Torque is the ability to do work. Hp is work over time, which depends on rpm. You can have 10,000 ft-lb of torque at zero rpm, holding up a weight. But that is zero hp because nothing is moving. Just the same, a B Jd rated at 28 hp can work circles around a 45 hp modern little kubota in tillage. Try it yourself. There's a lot more involved than hp. The 830 is not turning pumps & only half the gears so it's far more efficient at getting the power to the drawbar, and it's heavier than a 4020 with better weight placement for tillage besides. Traction matters too.
 
takes me 8- to 10 hours to mow the 23 acre front hay field did it with a 1955 jd 50 many times the 350 diesel farmall was cheeper to do it with, the new Holland hay bine 472 7ft that still runs the stock u joints in the drive line from the early 1970s, quicker is not always cheeper,
 
it takes my uncle 4 hours to mow the same hay he traded the 57 820 john deere after 30 years of use for a 900hour 2006 tn75 new Holland 4x4 and 7ft 3point disk mower
 
I suppose you're gonna tell me then that this 100hp 4230 can also pull the same load as a tandem hitched double R which is also rated at 100 hp but has double the cubic inches twice the tires on the ground twice the stroke & far more weight ? LOL it's not happening. Maybe a 400hp v-8 ford pickup can pull the same load just as fast as a 855 cummins set to 400hp? We can bolt them both into identical kenworths on a one dollar bet ......hp & torque are not the same at all. That's why they have different names.
 
in trade he got close to 19,000 out of the 820 if you had to match it with cash It was farm clothing stock did about 120 round bales every year that was it with it, think the guy come down to $14,000 on the tn 75 and has around 4000 on the mower
 
200 acres in a week is a tough task with a tractor that size, it does not leave a lot of safety margin for breakdowns.

I would think about everything you can do to save time, like no till and crop selection.
 
(quoted from post at 19:14:41 04/15/14) A good 830 can be had for less $ than a 100hp tractor, do just as much work, just as fast, & on HALF the fuel. all for 4 gallons per hr max. This could be accomplished for $10k. & work circles around a turbo'd 4020 or any 100hp 2wd machine on half the fuel. At full load you can only burn 4 gallons per hr with it. If you saved 2 gallons per hr over a single tractor & have less slippage you're up $10/hr plus.

Sorry dude but you are mathematically challenged.
The green dash 820 listed in the Nebraska tests.Had less power but was slightly better on fuel than the black dash 820/830/840.
4.21 US gallons per hour making 72.82 pulley HP and 67.15 drawbar HP. 5898lbs drawbar pull
You can't find a decent 80/820/830 around here for less than $10,000 each.

Vs.

A good old classic 4455 which will pull the pants off a pair of jacklegged 830's hitched together. On less fuel b.t.w.

Test Date: April 1, 1989 - May 1, 1979
Type: Diesel Powershift 4WD
PTO power (max): 146.86 hp [109.5 kW]
PTO fuel use (max): 8.1 gal/hour [30.7 l/hour]
PTO power (rated engine speed): 141.60 hp [105.6 kW]
PTO fuel use (engine speed): 8.4 gal/hour [31.8 l/hour]
Drawbar power (max): 122.53 hp [91.4 kW]
Drawbar fuel use (max): 8.4 gal/hour [31.8 l/hour]
Drawbar pull (max): 17,446 lbs [7913 kg]
Max pull gear: 3
Test report: PDF file
 
heck my dad was still loading lose hay in the 70s when his father got the 55 jd 50 all 3 of the barns are SET UP with trollys and 5 finger claws still GOT THE NEW IDEA hay loaders
 
Buick, remember that tandem 830's would more than double
the traction, fuel efficiency, & pounds of pull than one 830. This
is a well known fact, & true of any tandem hitched tractor. I
doubt it would pull 17,000 pounds but in a 100 acre challenge
it would come up close, if not ahead, due to traction. I have
watched single, double, & triple hitched 830's in the field. I've
watched a 7520 with a 830 pusher on it in the field. Also, I was
talking about a 2 wheel drive naturally aspirated 100 hp tractor,
because the original post was on 2 cyls, because I compared it
to a 4020, & because I'm not aware of any front-assist ones
you can buy in usable condition for 10,000$. If hp is superior
to cubic inches please explain to me why we don't have 400ci
in a semi with 500hp, (durability aside)? We have 1200ci
instead, with 450hp. One could indeed gear the truck to do the
work and at the same rate but it's not practical. And please
show me this $10,000 front wheel assist 55 series 6000hr
tractor you've found LOL
 
(quoted from post at 22:54:05 04/15/14) Buick, remember that tandem 830's would more than double
the traction, fuel efficiency, & pounds of pull than one 830. This
is a well known fact, & true of any tandem hitched tractor. I
doubt it would pull 17,000 pounds but in a 100 acre challenge
it would come up close, if not ahead, due to traction. I have
watched single, double, & triple hitched 830's in the field. I've
watched a 7520 with a 830 pusher on it in the field. Also, I was
talking about a 2 wheel drive naturally aspirated 100 hp tractor,
because the original post was on 2 cyls, because I compared it
to a 4020, & because I'm not aware of any front-assist ones
you can buy in usable condition for 10,000$. If hp is superior
to cubic inches please explain to me why we don't have 400ci
in a semi with 500hp, (durability aside)? We have 1200ci
instead, with 450hp. One could indeed gear the truck to do the
work and at the same rate but it's not practical. And please
show me this $10,000 front wheel assist 55 series 6000hr
tractor you've found LOL

I don't where you are going to find two 80/820/830 for under $12,000-$15,000 each. Then the time and money to hack them up into a tandem hitch . You are well into paying for a 4455M4WD by that point. The 4455 has diff lock, sound guard body , high flow hydrualics, 1000rpm pto, three point hitch and air conditioning. Add those to your 830 tandem hitch for less than the price of a 4455.
Care to guess that the price difference would be on a tandem 830 hitch at an auction vs a 4455M4WD at your retirement?
The M4WD was used as a comparison as it's driving on two axles like the jackleg tandem 830 hitch.
You were watching a strain gauge and mph indicator? Or watching the tractors from the side of the field? I'll take science over a seat of the pants dyno.
Where pray tell did 400cu" and 500HP come from ??? The 4455 has a 466 cu" engine making less than 150 net Hp.
The 450HP engine with 1200 cu" you like Is being pushed 119% harder than the 466 making 147pto Hp.
 
I have to agree with Buick. I have an 830 and a JD 6230 4-WD (75 pto hp) for my 80 acre hobby farm. I can pull a 4-16 plow with the 6230 in any condition, but the 830 can't always pull it in very dry or wet conditions because of traction. But the 830 does use a lot less fuel to do the same work. The 830 used to be my plow tractor but now I just use it to plow a few acres on a nice day. Hard to go back to sitting out in the weather when you have a cab tractor with air. Get a 4450 or 4455 with a cab and forget the 2-cylinder if your doing 200 acres. Al
 
The only reason I even care to make a comment is to keep misinformation from running rampant. Will a 4230 do as much work as 2 R tractors? The answer is yes. Two R tractors might move more weight at a low speed but a 4230 will move half the weight twice as fast.

You mentioned that Torque and Horsepower were different terms and I'll agree that they are but they are functions of each other. Without the movement (horsepower) the torsion (torque) is simply dead weight and is not capable of any work. Things have to move to be able to perform work.

You proved your own point by saying " You can have 10,000 ft-lb of torque at zero rpm, holding up a weight. But that is zero hp because nothing is moving". If nothing is moving there is no work getting done. Tractors have to move to pull a plow.

Will a compact utility tractor rated at 50 HP do as much work as an R? Obviously it cant keep up with the R if it was unballasted with the moldboard plow attatched because it would have to pull 1/3 of the load at 3 times the speed which would cause issues with the plow being pulled at 10 MPH. It will however, do just as much work on the PTO as the R and could pull the same plow at the same speed if a guy had enough ballast to weight it down to get traction.

Yes, R tractors are neat and sound really cool but their "cool factor" does mean that they can do more work than their rated horsepower. They can only output 48 HP on the flywheel.

Horsepower is a real nuts and bolts kind of thing, meaning that there is no gray area. A horsepower rating compared to a horsepower rating is like comparing oranges to oranges. It's a scientific measurement of how much work an engine is capable of completing in a given amount of time.

Just an FYI if the R engine spun as fast as the 4230 engine it would make half the torque of the 4230 which is why it has half the HP of the 4230 and is why it pulls the same load at half the speed, or half the load at the same speed.
 
To Buick, and you, please go back & read my tandem hitch
post. I said to tandem two R's, which you can buy several a
day for 3-5,000. NOT two 830's. I also said in comparison to a
2wd ,100hp tractor. It's a fact that the 2 R's combined can only
burn just over 4 gph at rated load. I don't know what a 4230
would burn, or a 4020, loaded to 100hp, but I'd bet it's more
than 8 or 9 gph. And nobody can tell me that a tandem R with
duals all around has less traction than even buicks 4455 front-
assist. Again I said a 2wd single 100hp tractor.
 
The 400ci @ 500 hp is running all over Tarnation, mostly at
classic car shows & drag strips. V-8 gas/ethanol. The 1200ci
@ 400 hp is in reference to a semi truck engine, which I was
also with the 500hp 400ci v-8 gas. Making a point that hp is
not always the same, torque matters. And on your note about
which is being pushed, using your 830's & your 4455, they
have over 900ci, your 4455 has only 466. The output is the
same.
 
The M&W dyno shows only the engines output, not the whole
machines ability to perform useful work. When you stand &
watch the 830 pull the same load in the same field at the same
rate as the 4020, I don't care what the dyno says cuz it doesn't
matter. You have to put it to the ground & burn the same fuel.
Perhaps we should remove your turbo & find a N.A. 6 cyl
Diesel that can do the work of an 830 on the same fuel, apples
to apples. It don't exist, at least not a Deere .
 
You've missed 3 very important things here. What is the hp hrs per gallon of fuel for both examples, & what percentage of the engines produced hp ends up available at the drawbar. In simple terms, which machine is more efficient? If the 4230 & the double R get the same work done at the same speed but the R's do it on 2/3 the fuel, they are then also doing more work on the same fuel. Thirdly, slippage in the field effects the ability to do work , the speed at which it's done, & the gallons burned to do it. So in many cases, 75 hp can & does out work 100 hp. The hp rating of the engine is far from the machines ability to do work as a whole. I do fully understand torque, hp & how they are related & inter-dependent. But you are ignoring real-world performance , which again has many factors involved beyond an engines hp rating.
 
Back in the day my great grandpa farmed almost 900 acres with first a IH W9, WD9, 600, JD 830 and then his last tractor a 4020. I first hand know that you can work 60 acres a day in a 10-12 day pulling a 15ft duckfoot plow working summerfallow. If you want to use a 2 cylinder I wouldn't go any smaller then a 830 or 820 if you want it done in a week.
 
This truly has turned into a can of worms.

The only wants to farm 200 acers, & doesn"t
need 20K investment.
 
(quoted from post at 00:02:46 04/16/14) The M&W dyno shows only the engines output, not the whole
machines ability to perform useful work. When you stand &
watch the 830 pull the same load in the same field at the same
rate as the 4020, I don't care what the dyno says cuz it doesn't
matter. You have to put it to the ground & burn the same fuel.
Perhaps we should remove your turbo & find a N.A. 6 cyl
Diesel that can do the work of an 830 on the same fuel, apples
to apples. It don't exist, at least not a Deere .

I don't what your point is.Now you have dropped back to comparing a cheaper tandem hitch set of R's. which have similar HP to a 2WD 4230 but two drive axles. Then commence to call the 2WD useless .
Now you turn around and say that comparing a M4WD 4455 , even a 4055 with two drive axles isn't fair?
We still have the M4WD 4050 as home with the NA 466. Other than you, who thinks the tandem hitch R is superior ?
 
(quoted from post at 07:48:38 04/16/14) This truly has turned into a can of worms.

The only wants to farm 200 acers, & doesn"t
need 20K investment.

As a kid we planted more than 200 acres of crop. The only tillage tractor was a well worn 70D standard . I kept looking all over the country, found the old girl and restored her. Last year I found and brought home the 555 plough Dad bought in the late 1950's .
 
Fuel consumption has nothing to do with HP. Yes, I'll agree that the R will do the same work as the 4230 in DOUBLE the amount of time on 2/3 of the fuel.

Slippage is simply a factor of operator error of improper ballast. Both tractors need weights in accordance with slippage.

According to Nebraska the R made 43 Drawbar HP pulling 6600 lbs in 1st gear and the 4230 made 83 Drawbar HP pulling 11,100 lbs in A2. These guys know a lot more about slippage and measuring power than either you or I.

50 horsepower is only capable of half the work of 100 horsepower. That's just the hard facts.
 
(quoted from post at 08:08:45 04/16/14) Fuel consumption has nothing to do with HP. Yes, I'll agree that the R will do the same work as the 4230 in DOUBLE the amount of time on 2/3 of the fuel.

Slippage is simply a factor of operator error of improper ballast. Both tractors need weights in accordance with slippage.

According to Nebraska the R made 43 Drawbar HP pulling 6600 lbs in 1st gear and the 4230 made 83 Drawbar HP pulling 11,100 lbs in A2. These guys know a lot more about slippage and measuring power than either you or I.

50 horsepower is only capable of half the work of 100 horsepower. That's just the hard facts.

So just how do you justify comparing a 4WD tandem hitch R to a 2WD 4230 and call the 4230 junk? Yet you cry foul when comparing the 4WD tandem R to a M4WD 4050.
You haven't explained either why you dropped back from the $$$ tandem 820/830 ?
If the tandem hitch R or 820/830 was so wonderful. Why isn't there shops churning out these rigs for eager farmers ?
The shops are busy keeping M4WD 50/55/60 series tractors working long past their design life.
 
gtx1967jewison,

What did the OP ever do to you that you'd give such a terrible recommendation to him???? A tandem hitch tractor for regular day-in day-out work? You sit on that hog for 12 hours and I'll sit on my 4430 for 12 hours and we'll see who can stand and hear at the end of it....


As far as a REASONABLE 2 cylinder tractor, any late A-730 is more than capable of running 200 acres, it's just a matter of how much time you got and what you're planting. In the 50's, lots of 200 acre farms had only 1 or 2 2 cylinder tractors, but those fellas were full-time farmers. They also had half of it in hay, so a fair amount of it wasn't plowed, disked, planted and cultivated every year.

I have 360 acres with 210 tillable and 150 of the tillable acres coming out of CRP next fall (20 is in 'til 2020). I currently have one 2 cylinder - a 1955 60 - and it barely ever comes out of the shed. The work I do now on 40 acres is with a 4430, 4010, 60, and 317 skid steer. AND I'm looking to grab another tractor soon...

Basically, I wouldn't work 200 acres with any 2 cylinder unless I was playing.
 
Back in the old days they could do a lot of farming with just a couple of unstyled B's.

I have one that came from a large local farm and that thing really had some wear in places I've not seen to often !

Now your dilemma is time to do it. A very heated debate about what to use for sure.

I say you need to get the largest tractor you can afford and try it.
 
(quoted from post at 01:34:57 04/16/14) 75 HP will NEVER be as much work as 100 HP. Saying that a 75 horse tractor can do as much work as 100 horse in the same amount of time is like saying that $75,000 is the same amount as $100,000 and will buy just as much stuff.

Horsepower is by definition the amount of energy needed to lift 550 lbs, one foot, in one second. That means that 75 Horsepower will not lift as many pounds in one second as 100 horse tractor.
But through differences in weight, gearing, tire size, etc., etc. a tractor with a 100 horse engine may not be able to apply that power and get as much work done as another tractor that only dyno's 75 horses.
 
I would have to suggest a good 730 diesel electric start wide
front. Good on fuel comfortable to drive, relatively inexpensive
to maintain. I have agas and diesel pony and would nog trade
for anything.
 
Buick If you read the original post . The man asked opinions
on which TWO CYLINDER ( NOT 4 or 6 cylinders) tractor
would be best for 200 acres. This entirely omits your 30,& 55
series 404's & 466's, NA or not, front assist or not. I never said
they were junk either, apparently you & Williamaybe have
trouble with reading & comprehension? This all started with
him saying a 75 hp tractor "WILL NEVER" do the tillage work
of a 100hp tractor & I commenced to explain IMO why & how it
can. Then you brought in the modern tractors again. As far as
the tandem hitch R, yes it has two sets of driven tires BUT ITS
made of TWO CYLINDER tractors, as the man asked.
Everyone agrees one 2 cyl has a tall order to till 200 acres in a
week & I gave a suggestion on one way to do it faster & still
use 2 cyl machines. Obviously a newer machine is superior in
many ways- if not we'd still be driving brand new R's, or riding
horses to work. A nicely done tandem hitch is easier &
smoother to steer & drive than a single 2 cyl tractor, power
steering & all tires are big, & weight. It's like an articulating
4wd. As far as noise, none of my two cylinders with a late oval
muffler are as loud as a 4230 is inside the cab. 2 R's with oval
830 mufflers & a 3' pipe above it would not be as loud IMO as
the 4230, screaming away at 2200rpm & the whining tranny.
The gas ones can barely be heard, even under full load. Get
yourself some new mufflers. I wear ear plugs in the 4230
sickle mowing & it has a brand new Jd muffler on it. And yes it
has air conditioning but again he asked opinions on TWO
CYLINDER machines. And to anyone, this is just my take on
the subject & I did not come here to argue or p oop on
anyone's parade. I have witnessed 75 hp tractors doing the
same work as 100hp ones & that's a fact, take it as you may
it's no skin off my back.
 
I did not "drop back" from the tandem 830. If you read, you will
see my very first post said I would tandem hitch R's. You
complained that 2 830's would cost $12,000 apiece (LOL). The
man asked about how to best work 200 acres with TWO
CYLINDER machines, not what tractor in general he should
buy to do it.
 
So by your test #s, two individual R's produce 2000# more pull & 3 more hp than your 4230. It is a well known FACT that two tandem hitched tractors produce a pull that is greater than the sum of their individual pulls. So adding them together mathematically gets you 13,200 pounds pull but hitching them together in the field gets you some # quite significantly more than that, because any fool knows also that an R is traction limited in first gear, as would be your 4230 in A2, even heavily ballasted. But I still don't know why it matters at all because the original question did not pertain to anything other than 2cyl machines.
 
(quoted from post at 14:47:35 04/15/14) Hello,
I was curious from the farmers that used them or do still use them, what size two cylinder JD you would get for up to 200 acres of tillable land mostly small grains. Say if you are doing most of the work alone and have about a week to work on it. Would be disking or chisel plowing not Moldboard plowing. Mostly curious what size people did it with or what they would use now days to get it done. Thanks!!!
I enjoyed reading all the feedback regarding your topic. I kept thinking back to when i was a kid growing up on a small farm in southern Wis. My father had a john deere 50 and a john deere 60 which provided feed for a 30 cow dairy and always had some hogs to provide additional income. Our neighbors all had 200-300 acre dairy farms and had a full time hired man. One neighbor had a MM U, MM Z and farmall B. Another had Massey Harris tractors and later Massey Ferguson. Another neighbor had a case vac, dc case, john deere A and john deere 70 gas. They got all their crops in early and good quality hay put up. Usually had a silo or two filled too. They all appeared to have a good living farming. Now this same area is operated with new and large equipment. I sometimes wonder have we really made progress.
 
(reply to post at 17:47:35 04/15/14) The fellow I worked for in high school had just over 900 acres, spread over 5 farms. He had a styled A and styled B. The A was hardly ever used. The B had a spray rig mounted on it and that was all it ever did. The work tractors were a late styled A and late styled B. Worked about 50/50 row crop and grain. The A would do the grain stubble with an offset disk and before that a 12 disk, disk tiller. Then we would bed the stubble with the A. Didn't seem like a lot of work at the time. Everything was spread out over the 12 months. I think a 60-630 would do what you want. After all my dad farmed 78 acres with a H.
 
(quoted from post at 10:56:37 04/16/14) Thanks for all the replys! Very interesting to get the ideas everyone says. Again thanks.

Well, you certainly opened a very big can of worms with this, but it is always fun to watch they guys debate their points of view. Almost like watching attorneys argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Rather than offer up my opinion at this time, i would like to know a little more about how and why you plan to farm this 200 acres. Are you doing it for fun or serious business? Or perhaps a little fun and business combined? Are you planing on a week to prepare a seed bed and plant or is that the time you have for that and harvest? What kind of budget do you have to work with? What about herbicide and fertilizer?

Something to consider is the value of your time verses the value of the equipment. Say your weekly take home pay is $750; it may make better sense to take an extra week and go for a less expensive tractor than some are suggesting. Suppose it takes an extra $8500 to upgrade to a newer tractor, it would take over 11 years of an extra weeks pay to payback that additional investment.
 
The reason 4230's were mentioned and compared is because YOU brought them into the discussion.

Suggesting that someone tie two R tractors together to farm makes no sense. If a guy wants a project that's fine but the cost/labor involved would be double the price of a nice 100 or even 150 horse tractor.

I care not one bit what kind of tractor this guy gets but hopefully he will realize from this discussion that 200 acres of row crop is beyond the scope of a single two cylinder tractor if he intends to get things done in just a few days.

On a side note, the tandem R's will still never do as much work as a single 4230 with an efficient operator and matched equipment. The 4230 will be headed back down the field with the tandem R's are still turning around. The guy on the 4230 can catch another gear on the headland to buzz on over while the guy in the tandem R's is trying to figure out how in the world he is going to change gears.

On another side note. The tandem R's together may pull more pounds on the drawbar than the sum of two singles but it should with all the added weight of the hitch. They are heavier. The tandem R's however, will never produce more than the sum of their rated HP. They will pull twice their normal load at the same speed or their normal single load at double the speed. Dont forget to deduct HP from the rating to run any hydraulics for the steering. I bet that would eat your spare 6 HP :)

The supposed "magic" of hitching tractors together and "gaining" power is simply a wives tale of the folks selling conversion kits all those years ago. If a single tractor was ballasted to exactly the same weight (properly distributed) as itself plus half the hitch, it would perform half the work of the tandem tractors. There is no magic in physics.

I'll say again that old diesel two cylinders are really neat and had an incredible place in production agriculture 60 years ago but are best suited for plowdays, parades and tractor shows now. Yes, they were fuel efficient but are limited by low pressure hydraulics, marginal charging systems, single speed engines, no rocksaft and limited variation in working speeds.

I'll ride in my soundgard body all day while you ride that really cool tandem R and we'll see who feels most chipper after a 10 hour day and we will also see who plowed the most ground. I know you and I both know the answer to these questions, but I'll never understand your desire to attempt to confuse the younger/less experienced crowd on this board with your HP/torque claims. It's all been spelled out in black and white. It's simple and elementary. It cant be refuted but yet it can be danced around by changing the subject, which is what has happened several times in this discussion.

Just one more visualization in case you honestly are confused (I think you are hard headed, not confused), lets pretend the following scenario. Lets ballast up an R tractor just up to the point that we can power out (choke out the engine) in 1st gear, now lets ballast up the 4230 to the point of being able to power out in A1. After applying all that ballast, lets hitch them drawbar to drawbar. At this point it's all about engine HP since neither tractor can spin out. The R only has 50 engine HP while the 4230 has double that amount. That means the R is going to choke and get dragged backwards. Yes, I realize that you mentioned tandems at several points but you also mentioned that a 75 HP two cylinder diesel could outwork many 100 HP tractors which is why I even entered this discussion. That statement is false and is misleading to a novice. A 75 HP tractor will never ever never be able to produce as much work as a 100 HP tractor. It might weigh more and be capable of pulling a larger plow at a low speed but it will never be capable of as much work in a given period of time. The higer HP tractor might pull a smaller draft load but at a much greater speed which will supersede the lower HP tractor. I think in your mind, more weight and more plow bottoms equals more work, which simply is not true.
 
(quoted from post at 05:01:40 04/17/14)
(quoted from post at 10:56:37 04/16/14) Thanks for all the replys! Very interesting to get the ideas everyone says. Again thanks.

Well, you certainly opened a very big can of worms with this, but it is always fun to watch they guys debate their points of view. Almost like watching attorneys argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Rather than offer up my opinion at this time, i would like to know a little more about how and why you plan to farm this 200 acres. Are you doing it for fun or serious business? Or perhaps a little fun and business combined? Are you planing on a week to prepare a seed bed and plant or is that the time you have for that and harvest? What kind of budget do you have to work with? What about herbicide and fertilizer?

Something to consider is the value of your time verses the value of the equipment. Say your weekly take home pay is $750; it may make better sense to take an extra week and go for a less expensive tractor than some are suggesting. Suppose it takes an extra $8500 to upgrade to a newer tractor, it would take over 11 years of an extra weeks pay to payback that additional investment.

Yes, I can try to detail a bit more. I am looking to do 200 acres for some cash as well as hobby. It will not be my full-time job so I dont have to support myself off of that income. I do have the use of a JD 620 and that is what I will be using for this year on a 40 acre chunk. Next spring I am hoping the additional land will be ready to rent. I am not using fert or herb on it more organic. The 1 week would be for seed bed work and seeding, harvest would not be part of the time frame. My budget is tight so I am looking more on the side of longer days and hard work versus newer more expensive equipment. I love the two cylinders, but didnt know if any of the people that farm now or back then did that much with a single two cylinder in a week time frame.
Just some background on what I am planning. From what i read adding a 730D with the 620 or moving up to a 4020 maybe the best option, as doing all of it in my time window with the 620 may not be possible. Murphy's law esures that. :lol:
Again I greatly appreciate the opinions from everyone as I am new and starting on my own for this. Thanks!!
 
Quite an interesting arguement you got going,heh? I'm not even going to talk tractors because if you are trying to farm thet whole 200 at the same time into the same crop, then first of all you have to learn from those old two cyl how to farm. At a minimun you divide it up three ways depending on the lay of the land and soil type. Hay , winter wheat and soybeans would be my choice but I don't know where you live so will use it just as an example. Sell the hay right out of the field (no equipment needed) , Plant wheat in late Sept/early Oct. Hire it custome harvested next Aug, plany soys in May and harvest in Oct. Again hire it done. Work it a little and put wheat right back in soy ground. Next spring drill soys right in the wheat stubble from last yr. You will only be farming 66 acres at any one time. The hay should be good for 3 yrs so you have 3 yrs with zero work on 66 acres. All you need is a good 10' no-till drill, 8' field digger for when you do need to get it loosened up after few yrs and mounted 3 btm plow and maybe an 8' disc. Hire any spraying done and hire any fertilizer spread. Overhead kills! A 620/630 will do it if done this way and will handle a 3 btm easily. A word of warning is you do know just how old these tractors are. Do you really think you can find one that isn't going to tie you up with break-downs ? And what about rain? No cab? You can no till in the rain with a cab. Farm smart,not hard, that's how the old timers did it. For the same price as a "nice" 630 JD one can get many different 75-85 hp more modern tractors with cab. !970,s era Case , Massey Ferguson even Oliver , were talkin $5000-$6500 which is what a "no problem" 630 will run ya. I love the old put put,s also but would hate to see you hating this little farming venture in the end.
 
I am confused by your posts, in one place you talk about "getting it in within a week", in the other you say "you have more hours than money".

Do you own the land, do you have a full time job, have you farmed before? All these variables fall into the answer.
 
My farm is 76 acres of very steep land that is the hinterland
between the farmable and the unfarmable. The best tractor that I
have ever used is a 730D fitted with M4WD. However I do not need
high hp for the work I do. I do appreciate the longevity, and low
running costs.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top