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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

1947 John Deere B Project (radiator)

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Bob Watkins, Ohio

01-14-2014 13:05:21
76.181.19.63



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I am restoring this tractor. Of course I"ve run into some problems. Mostly bolts that twist off when I"m taking it apart. Disassembled the radiator a few days ago. The bottom was not much trouble. twisted off some bolts but a little heat did the trick. The top of the radiator is more challenging! Twisted off 8 bolts and the overflow tube connector nut. A little heat did nothing. Drilled some of them out ok. Broke off drill bits in two of the threaded holes and cannot get them out. The more I mess with the bits, the deeper they seem to go and the more stuck they are. Bought a carbide bit for my Dremel. Hope I can grind them out? As for the overflow tube? I heated it several different times. I finally twisted the nut off even with the cast. I tried drilling and a small chisel. I was hoping to not destroy the threads but now I just want the piece out of there. I bought a bigger bit. There is no pressure in the radiator on this model. Does anyone know if I can solder, epoxy or weld the drain tube into the cast? Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,
Bob

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Bob Watkins, Ohio

01-16-2014 06:45:26
76.181.19.63



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-14-2014 13:05:21  
Thanks Everyone! It is amazing how many replies and ideas have been posted. I was able to get the gland nut out yesterday, I used a carbide bit in my Dremel and cut through in one place to the cast. Then I noticed a small piece had come loose from the cast and was able to use a small chisel. Once a small piece cam out the rest let loose! I tried using the Dremel and carbide bit on the broken drill bits but have not got them out yet. However, I think the holes are deep enough I don't need to get out what's left. I think I can use a shorter bolt and be ok. Any opinions? Just got a Snap On 140 mig welder. Used to weld for a living but that was 30 years ago and haven't welded since. Did some practicing yesterday. Not sure the welder is working right, but I know I forgot all I knew! I couldn't even do a spot weld on thin metal. Welded a bead ok on thick metal but thin metal just became a hole! LOL! Again, Thanks everyone!
Bob

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JRSutton

01-16-2014 17:43:03
100.0.77.120



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-16-2014 06:45:26  
very generally speaking, if you can get enough threaded in as the bolt is wide, you're ok.

But even at that point, don't go crazy cranking it down.

Any less threaded in, adjust your torque accordingly.



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JRSutton

01-16-2014 04:13:45
100.0.77.120



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-14-2014 13:05:21  
Removing the broken bits isn't going to be easy.

You can try a carbide (or cobalt) center cutting end mill - a drill press would be fine in this case, assuming you don't have a milling machine.

It'll have a flat cutting bottom. They're available in a wide variety of diameters.

You could try enco, they usually offer some cheap options. I'll throw a link in here.

If you do it - align it as perfectly as you can in the drill press - use high speed - go down slow and steady - use a little light oil - clear the hole often.

Watch carefully because at some point the bit may start to spin freely and you won't be able to cut it. Try dumping it out or lifting with a magnet.

Focus on the first mission of getting the bit out. Don't worry about the hole. You can cross that bridge next. You might end up having to drill and tap it one size up, but that's not a big deal if it comes to that.

Good luck - let us know what you end up doing.

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JRSutton

01-16-2014 04:16:59
100.0.77.120



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to JRSutton, 01-16-2014 04:13:45  
oops - here's the enco link



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Wind63

01-15-2014 09:02:05
204.54.36.245



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-14-2014 13:05:21  
Probably too late as you have broken them off already, but I have read of an interesting home made mixture of 50% ATF and 50% acetone that is supposed to be the best at loosening rusty parts. I have not tried it yet, but intend to this spring for a couple of projects. If you go to AgTalk.com, in the Machinery Talk forum, just search for Hagen's Brew, everone who has tried says it works.



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41B-boy

01-15-2014 10:39:00
172.242.252.133



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Wind63, 01-15-2014 09:02:05  
I tried 50/50% acetone and ATF to free up a badly stuck cylinder. I was genuinely amazed.
FWIW.

Bob



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machinery-man

01-15-2014 07:49:49
172.9.192.94



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-14-2014 13:05:21  
Do you have an acetylene/ oxy outfit? As previously stated you're up the creek without one.



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Bob Watkins, Ohio

01-15-2014 10:55:44
76.181.19.63



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to machinery-man, 01-15-2014 07:49:49  
No. I am using a solder torch with MAP gas which is hotter than propane and did the trick on all the other bolts.
Thanks,
Bob



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Bob Watkins

01-15-2014 06:43:24
76.181.19.63



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-14-2014 13:05:21  
I appreciate all your help and ideas. However, I have 2 drill bits broke off in the bolt holes which no one addressed. How do I get broken bits out of a hole? they are tight, I cannot reach in a 5/16 hole with needle nose, nor can I weld anything to them, nor can I drill them out.

The only other problem at this point is the Gland Pack Nut for the drain pipe. I have heated it so much I believe I welded it to the threads and have broken it off so I cannot weld to it. I am going to try to drill it today with a 3/4" bit. I am sure this will destroy any threads left. Is there a tap this big? Is there an oversized Gland Pack Nut?

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Mike Aylward

01-15-2014 10:03:08
209.152.135.126



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, 01-15-2014 06:43:24  
Bob, on the gland nut try heating it and then get an ice cube and put on it (good idea to wear welder gloves). The fast shrinkage will usually loosen them right up. Sometimes it's necessary to do it twice but I've never had it fail me on bolts and such. Mike



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Bob Watkins, Ohio

01-15-2014 10:51:11
76.181.19.63



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Mike Aylward, 01-15-2014 10:03:08  
Thanks!



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D-

01-15-2014 13:38:00
166.205.68.37



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-15-2014 10:51:11  
You might leave the gland nut alone. Drill out the tube through the nut and hardened gland. You could reinstall a new tube with adhesive silicone. It won't leak or come out easily.
If you do drill out the nut there are taps available (perfect threads are not that critical in this case) or you could use a heli-coil.



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machinery-man

01-15-2014 06:41:02
172.9.192.94



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-14-2014 13:05:21  
These projects require easy effort. I've found using box end wrenches and tapping back and forth with a small ball pen hammer worked the best or real low air pressure back and forth with a 1/4 or 3/8 impact....aggressiveness will not pay off...here



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forty40

01-14-2014 18:24:00
74.77.12.246



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-14-2014 13:05:21  
Pictured are the radiator components from a later B which had 9 broken off studs or bolts. First all the parts were glassbead cleaned. Then using a small oxy/acetylene rosebud torch, each location was heated to a dull orange and the studs turned right out. For the bolts which were broken off flush, welded on a flat washer, then a nut on the washer, heated with the torch and out they came. Someone on this board told me it works better to start turning the nut by tap tap tapping on the wrench with a small hammer instead of just turning it. That method did work better. Also, very important to slow cool in still air after heating. Chased all the threads with a tap, turned out OK. Then, decided to go with an aluminum radiator in my pulling tractor, so these parts are for sale.

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Bob Watkins, Ohio

01-15-2014 07:17:03
76.181.19.63



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to forty40, 01-14-2014 18:24:00  
I would be interested in the radiator top shown in the picture. Did you get the drain Gland Pack Nut removed? How much?

I also would like more information about the Aluminum Radiator? Does it have the holes for the hood/sheet metal bolts? Where would I find one? How much are they?

Thanks, Bob



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forty40

01-15-2014 17:05:23
74.77.12.246



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-15-2014 07:17:03  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

The aluminum radiator with the fabricated framework would just be for a pulling tractor the way I have it built. It takes an electric fan, an electric water pump, and would probably only be good for cooling about 45 seconds at a time of hard pulling.
The John Deere B radiator Parts are Upper B2602R (it appears ??), sides are B1804R, and the bottom is B2603R. The drain tube nut is out and the threads are clean. All parts for $150 + shipping. I don't sell parts for a business and want to get rid of all these pieces since I have no need for them. .
If you are interested in the B radiator pieces, make sure your part numbers match the above numbers. When I was looking through all the John Deere B radiator parts at the salvage yard, they are not identical and do not mount in the frame the same. Part numbers absolutely need to match for them to fit in the same frame.
About your broken of drill bits...I had broken off a 5/8"-11 tap in the rear housing trying to get out broken off studs and thought I was doomed. In what I considered a last resort, I took a nut and placed it over the hole with the broken off tap, turned the mig welder up to the settings for 3/8" T and basically just poured the fog to it. After cooling down, most likely by divine mercy, the tap turned right out.
Dave Miller 585-593-3189 Wellsville, NY

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Bob Watkins, Ohio

01-16-2014 06:49:21
76.181.19.63



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to forty40, 01-15-2014 17:05:23  
I will keep your parts in mind and check my part numbers. I do think mine is usable now but will see when I try to assemble. How do you get these pictures on your posts?
Thanks,
Bob



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Elbrus

01-14-2014 18:08:02
108.20.200.183



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-14-2014 13:05:21  
I am not really recommending this as a fix but when I had a bad screw hole in my JD A I could not seem to repair it. Not wanting to go with a screw missing I was at a loss to fix it. My desire to fill the hole with braze and re-tap kept failing because the braze did not bond well to cast. So I ended up electroplating the hole with copper by filling the hole with some acid and suspended a copper wire with a small charge. After a few hours I had built up a small copper coating that I believe helped the braze adhere well enough that I could drill and tap the new hole. I firmly believed the copper helped. I was able to apply the same torque to that screw and its still holding.

I had tried this on a spare piece of cast iron I had first and then repeated the process. So I guess I can say I did it twice.

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machinery-man

01-14-2014 13:18:50
172.9.192.94



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-14-2014 13:05:21  
I'm with Mike....on this type work you need to wire brush preferably by hand grinder down to the bare metal then use an acetylene oxygen brazing tip to property heat the bolt, let cool then remove...on a large item I use the cutting torch...sounds like you're creating more work than repairing...



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jeo46

01-14-2014 13:15:36
184.20.40.156



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-14-2014 13:05:21  
Put a 3/8 hex nut over twisted off bolt and weld it to bolt with small rod. Do not get so hot it destroys nut. Wait for nut to cool and turn it lightly both ways. Heat must go into bolt to loosen it. May take a couple three tries but has worked many time in past for me.



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Mike M

01-14-2014 13:07:54
24.140.0.120



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 Re: 1947 John Deere B Project (radiator) in reply to Bob Watkins, Ohio, 01-14-2014 13:05:21  
You say a little heat ? like a propane torch ?
if so these do little to no good for rusted tractors you need an oxy/ace torch.



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