biased opinion/ethanol

I wasn't going to ask this but the more I sit on it, the more it nettles me. Not long ago I inquired opinions on ethanol gas because I have switched my small engines such as weedeater, tiller, chainsaw, generator, etc. over to 0% ethanol. I got opinions back that go against all facts from different testings of the product 10% ethanol. I hope I don't offend anyone here....but if I do, it's not intentional, just trying to dig a little more into the realisms of use of the product.
I have my suspicions that many answers I got were biased in the direction of full acceptance of 10% being a majestic product over 0% ethanol. Is it possible that some of these answers were biased because they were put in by corn producing farmers who are doing very well providing corn for fuel compared to when they were providing corn for food? I'm hoping this is not the case because we've got enough crooked & corrupt politicians in Washington without having to put up with that fateful attitude here on the forums.
 
I agree with David G. What answer are you looking for? There is a short term and long term perspective and at least one perspective driven by unbridled greed. You can get all kinds of unlearned opinions concerning ethanol. However, fact based economists will tell you if you add up all the costs associated with producing corn based ethanol, including the often ignored/hidden costs of price supports, degraded soils, etc... long term corn based ethanol is not sustainable and alternatives to corn and alternative fuels should be pursued rather quickly. However, not too many folks look at stuff holistically these days. "Man believes what he wants to believe and just ignores the rest"... Simon & Garfunkel ,..circa 1959..from the song "The Boxer"..
 
Renewable resource is the name of the game. I have no dog I the fight except living on the planet. I find ethanol to be tough on some diaphragm type carbs and pumps as well as some hoses so I stay away from it on two cycle engines and some other small engines. Other wise , I use it exclusively. We also had gas get rotten very early during hot weather in the 50's. Don't see a whole lot of difference now.
 
Much of the reason ethanol gets a bad rap is because it cleans the fuel system of crap left in your system by your 100% gas. Once the ethanol has done it's work and cleaned your fuel system you will wonder why you didn't do it sooner. And consider this: the general quality of all gasolines has deteriorated. The ethanol actually INCREASES the quality over the base gasoline. Blame the gas, not the ethanol. Mike
 
I agree Mike. I grow corn and have previous refinery experience. The ethanol is an additive that makes gas burn cleaner and replaces older more harmful additives that were used in the past. There is lots of propaganda about the pros and cons of ethanol but my bet is it is here to stay. The fuel today is very different than the fuel of 20 years ago and although it may present some challenges cleaner burning with less harmful emmisions is the real benefit.
 
Sorry I didn't mention that my concern is with longevity in a can. I have no problem running the fuel in my truck because new is pumped in on a weekly basis. What I do have a problem with is pumping into a 5 gallon can for small engines & it souring up within 3 months. Even my new John Deere lawn tractor manual warns if you have ethanol gas that's more than 30 days old, don't use it. That tells me a story right there. I use the good stabilizer sold at Tractor Supply but have my doubts that keeps it good for more than 5 months or so. Amazing what Washington & the "greens" throw at us without giving a crap if we want it.

Mr. Shelby, you rebuild carburetors. I'd like to hear your opinion. What kind of messes have you seen on these 2-cylinder carbs using 10%?
 
I hear the arguments both directions and don"t personally have the background to know the correct scientific answer. However, I do know that fifty years or so ago, the solution to a badly running engine was to run some "cleaner" through it, which basically consisted of flushing it with alcohol to clean out the varnish. So maybe a little occasionally is good but constant exposure is not???? I have a friend who says he has just gotten into the habit of overhauling his 2-cycle carbs each year and replacaing the diaphrams. On the other hand, I have a chain saw that is over forty years old and has never had carb work done on it. So what is it I am trying to avoid by paying more for pure gas? Maybe we have too many plastic parts inside engines now that is affected by alcohol.
 
I run ethanol in my chain saw and it stays in good shape. The oil seems to function as a stabilizer. Once again, it's not the ethanol that goes bad. It's the gas MIXED with the ethanol. Even conventional gasoline without ethanol goes bad. The old tractor that you cleaned the gunk out of it's fuel system could very well have been caused by 100% gasoline. All gasoline will go bad now sooner than it used to. Once again, it's NOT the fault of the ethanol. If it was, I wouldn't use it. I have for over 35 years without any problem. The only fuel that won't go bad is either aviation fuel or racing fuel. Anything else will. Mike
 
I have a lot less problems with 2 stroke carbs and fuel systems now compared to 20 yrs ago. Fuel stabilizer is reqd for storage but that was the case yrs ago as well. My 2 stroke outboards are fine as was said the oil acts as a stabilizer. We put thousands of miles each winter on 2 stroke snowmobile engines with no problems, actually less than before the ethanol blend fuel days. My farm equipment is all diesel, even my lawnmower. Now our problem with that machinery is low sulphur and lack of lube for valves. Always something...
 
I'm with you on some of the points with ethanol. Pro..Years ago I got "on board" with the thought of making fuel from corn when I seen the huge amounts of corn piled on the ground near the elevators, then the argument for the ethanol was we could turn this potential waste into fuel. I gave it " 2 thumbs up" then. Con..Little did we know was how much energy it takes to produce ethanol not to mention the huge amounts of water it takes as well. Con..You can't run ethanol through pipe line..you have to truck it or go by rail...corrosive perhaps? Well now, we are raising corn for the main purpose of fuel. Has anyone experienced cheaper food prices in the past 5 years? How about gas prices? I say the cons out weigh the pros. I remember my grandfather back in the early '70s said when the catalytic converter in cars came out...he said "how do you get cleaner air by burning more fuel?" This is exactly what happened to the gas mileage of vehicles when they did this. He had a good point.
 
longmeadow i would bet that ethanol is more substainable than gas and what are the hidden costs in crude prodution, as to your so called fact based economists you can make numbers say anything you want eather way. a lot of the guys that say ethnol is no good are just mad that they did not by into any ethanol plants at the start
 
My experiences & a totally unscientific opinion.
I use 10% ethanol pump gas in everything because that is what is convenient to buy. Lawn tractor, snow blower, mower, tractor, etc.
Bought a new mower in 88, used it 4 years. Put it in storage with gas in it in 93. Dug it out in 02. Started on first pull, no problems. Went back into storage until last week. Started on first pull again, with the same 20 year old gas in tank.
One other unit in my fleet needs carb cleaning, idle passage plugged. Haven't used that one since 03.
Makeing ethanol- some experts claim that it is a good energy supply. However, if they would add all the energy needed to do soil prep, planting, weed control, harvest, & transport the corn, plus the refining process, I think it would show a net loss.
Just my humble opinion.
Willie
 
Willie, you forget all the energy it takes to extract oil from the ground, transport it across the world, and fuel the ships and planes it takes to defend that pathway. Farmers will grow corn because we are good at it and that is what some of this land is best suited for. In the 80's, when we were awash in the stuff they told us to find new uses for it. We already had, it was promoted, accepted and embraced, and here we are. The argument of it being an "energy waster" is a hollow one. All energy sources waste energy for the simple reason that energy cannot be made or lost. Only changed in form. In the changing process is where the energy gets lost, due to heat. End of sermon. Mike
 
If trying to properly educate yourself on an issue by listening to different opinions is "being on a crusade" then so be it. This is a hard one to settle the mind on & know for sure which direction to go with providing the best for small engines that sit a lot.

I disagree that the same answers came across. Some new ascertaining information has come out of this post.
 
The issue I have with those critics of ethanol who cite the "hidden" costs of production is that the never seem to be able to calculate the same "hidden" cost for competing fuels.

As for storage in a fuel can, keeping the storage vessel vapor tight and out of sunlight is key as is stabilizer for longer storgae.

As for me, I have a lot larger complaint with the "new and improved" government mandated gas cans that cost 3 times as much and have been improved to the point where they are damned near useless.
 

>" If trying to properly educate yourself "

I would submit that if that was the end goal, a strictly scientific experiment would be of the first order.

Take, say, 6 new metal sealed canisters of some sort or another (a jerry can, for example). Pour exactly, say, a gallon of "sample A" in 3 of them. Pour the same amount of "sample B" in another of them. Take a reference sample (perhaps a cup?) from each can and send it off to 3 independent labs for chemical analysis. Let the cans all sit together for the indicated 3 months (based on a comment in a prior reply). Then retrieve another sample from each can and send it to the same 3 labs for the same reports. Compare the before and after results.

I believe that this could well yield more facts (rather than opinions) from which to base decisions.
 
Alcohol in itself never goes bad that I know of so how can it make the gasoline it's mixed with go bad? And no, ethanol, meaning alcohol does not sit there and suck water out of the air. Jim
 

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