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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

old tractors vs new tractors

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Big Jugs

04-04-2013 18:27:57
174.124.109.128



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Wondering how people feel about the older tractors such as 4020"s, 5020"s, 6030"s 4440"s vs the brand new ones? Granted the price is ridiculous, lol, the cabs are pretty plush, it"s not even "sheetmetal" anymore-it"s all plastic! Should a guy keep running and rebuilding the engine on the older ones for the money? Do you think these new tractors will have the reputation of lasting as long as the New Gen. tractors?

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FactoryFarmer

04-06-2013 18:02:21
184.21.136.51



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Big Jugs, 04-04-2013 18:27:57  
It really depends on the situation. We farm a good amount of ground and put 5-800 hours on our tractors a year. For the longest time we had 2-4850s and a 4840 for the planting, graincart, side-dressing, etc and a newer 4wd for heavy tillage. We worked on everything ourselves and it seems like we were always doing something to them. Granted, they pulled more modern equipment which more than likely worked them alot harder than the equipment they were meant for.

Now we don't use any of those tractors much any more and could not be happier. We rarely have to work on anything and our productivity is alot better than before. Not to mention with nicer cabs and controls we can work longer hours and alot more of them and get everything planted in a timely matter with maybe some time to spare to do a little custom work.

Electronics are alot more reliable than most people realize. Just think how old some of these electronic combines and tractors are now and they are still operating just fine. Everyone thought it was the end of the world when the 9000 series combines came out, guess what, most of them are still running strong.

With that being said I still enjoy hoping on a 4020 in the summer to rake hay or grind feed, kinda hard to beat that.

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larryanderson

04-06-2013 05:11:11
184.21.172.50



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Big Jugs, 04-04-2013 18:27:57  
My friend made his last trip to California with his 3406 CAT as it will not pass air pollution specs.Our track tractor set for 2 days while they tried to find computer problem .They brought us a loaner so it wasnt a problem.The new diesel pickups get 30% less mileage than they did 10 years ago.All brands included .My new loader tractor has had more down time than my 4450 w/10K hours on it .Progress and problems seem to have a lot in common.I agree my great great grandson probably wont be collecting a 8330 JD.

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Tim S

04-06-2013 06:46:46
75.49.20.159



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to larryanderson, 04-06-2013 05:11:11  
This is what I"m seeing all around,,The Deere and other company"s are "Drunk" on High tech design and end up using a half dozen potentiometers on each function to bring their nightmare together..and near impossible equations to diagnose their mind bending problems..I am by no means ignorant to new technologies, as I set here in front of a High speed computer with dual screens,,but these new engine/hydraulic systems are not good...and very undependable ...

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Kansas4010

04-05-2013 13:29:46
204.10.232.70



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Big Jugs, 04-04-2013 18:27:57  
The older tractors will be out earning their keep right up until the EPA says they can"t.



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Tim S

04-05-2013 13:58:46
75.49.20.159



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Kansas4010, 04-05-2013 13:29:46  
Exactly....



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Geoff Mathews

04-05-2013 10:14:03
86.138.27.131



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Big Jugs, 04-04-2013 18:27:57  
Electronics and software lend themselves to designed obsolesence and make it easy for the manufacturer to limit the useful life of a product.



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Tim S

04-05-2013 07:58:54
99.159.251.24



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Big Jugs, 04-04-2013 18:27:57  
The newest model Deere's will be parked because of electrical problems,, long before the engines and transmission wear out, they are too complex to survive the test of time, this is why the better condition older models are bringing a premium...I have seen people loose a day or two of great planting days because no one could figure out the electrical problem,,all else was up and running, but because the fancy control features were in-operable... Deere engineers are "Drunk" on these high tech systems, then throw in the Government mandates for emissions and you end up with a very beautiful, high tech and useless machine, that will be dragged away from the planter so the 4440 can get things moving... again...

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elkcagg

04-05-2013 19:44:24
107.227.202.240



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Tim S, 04-05-2013 07:58:54  
You"re right. The Deere engineers are playing right into this EPA crap instead of telling them to shove it. Electronics in tractors is like electronics in machine tools. The iron outlasts the the "high tech". Once it fails you have a boat anchor. 11 or 13 computers in the new tractors? Really? What for? Just talked to a fellow this past week who bought a 7410 new for 90+k in "02. He said he paid for it in 5 years but now the back axle slid out last summer. 13k later he had his tractor back after 6 weeks in the JD shop. I think I would take my chances on a 4020 for 13k outright now and have better results than this.

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Big Jugs

04-06-2013 19:17:25
174.124.109.128



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to elkcagg, 04-05-2013 19:44:24  
I'm enjoying my 5020 for exactly those reasons...I can actually fix most of it on my own. Gotta love smoke out of a Pig!!!!



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gpuller

04-06-2013 19:36:44
69.163.7.4



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Big Jugs, 04-06-2013 19:17:25  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I say run the old ones!



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tanman_2006

04-07-2013 18:52:40
198.46.26.54



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to gpuller, 04-06-2013 19:36:44  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

My name is Tanner, I run red equipment and I approve this message.

Those are some nice old pigs, love the look of the duals.



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elkcagg

04-07-2013 05:49:44
32.132.208.120



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to gpuller, 04-06-2013 19:36:44  
Those are some beautiful tractors gpuller! Pretty sharp ol iron.



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Eric Hartman

04-05-2013 05:31:23
198.45.168.177



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Big Jugs, 04-04-2013 18:27:57  
The advantage we have with the New Generation and Generation II is the fact they have proven themselves to be durable machines, as they have stood the test of time. Have they all been perfect? Probably not. I think anyone who has had long term experience with any brand could pick out the more prone problems of any machine. This equipment is not "throw away," so you do keep it maintained. I enjoy operating both our New Generation and Generation II equipment. I have also operated some of the newer 7000 and 8000 series, and the cabs are a joy to spend time in as well as unmatched visibility. Sitting in the cab of an 8000 series makes the Sound Guard cab seem rather crude and confining by comparison, but at least my older equipment is in good shape and paid for. I personally think the 8.1 liter engine was a great step forward from the 7.6 liter, as the latter was simply maxed out in what it could do. Electronics on newer equipment, well, just like everything today, it is great when it works and a headache when it does not. Hydraulic systems have quite a demand placed upon them with operating today's planting equipment, thus they are far more complicated with more to go wrong than what we had 30 years ago. I would also agree with the emission related components. I tend to believe that today's diesel engines (both on and off road) that we faced with gasoline engines in automobiles back in the 1970's. The industry has come a long way since then, and perhaps in another 10 to 15 years, I hope that our diesel engines and their emissions components will be as durable as our automotive gasoline powered engines. The 3020 and 4020 are probably still like a pair of pliers that one would be lost without, and they are classy looking even today. The 4440 is a 15 year newer version of a 4020, for all practical purposes. The 6030 you cite, well, it is in a league all by itself and represents the biggest and the baddest of the New Generation. The 4960 represents the most refined of Generation II and is a pleasure to operate. I don't know if the same will be said about, say, an 8400 or a 7930, or an 8310R. I don't believe they will be parked in salvage yards in 10 or 20 years. I do not think that many of today's large scale farming operations hold their equipment quite as near and dear to them as it was in times past. Equipment is purchased, used, and swapped out fairly rapidly. I have looked at a lot of used tractors over the years, and it surprises me how badly beat up so many of them are. Clean, low hour, well cared for equipment seems to be getting harder and harder to come by. We were fortunate enough to find with the last two tractors purchased, clean, one owner, lower houred equipment, that were both older than 10 years. The prior owners did take care of them and at least seemed to take some pride in the ownership of them.

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JD Jim

04-05-2013 04:29:10
66.206.247.160



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Big Jugs, 04-04-2013 18:27:57  
I have 5 tractors of the 20 and 30 series. All good tractors. Also have 3 new tractors. The new ones likely won't be here past 5-7 yrs. Issues with electronics and emissions will be the reason. Trade for new and buy extended warranty the plan. Some of my old ones will always be here, kind of attached to them. I can't make a 70,s 150 hp tractor do what the new mfwd 200 hp will do. Auto steer, mapping, and the cabs make long days easy. They both have a place here.

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sgtbull

04-05-2013 01:02:59
163.191.228.254



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Big Jugs, 04-04-2013 18:27:57  
The biggest problems I see with new tractors is the complexity of the electrical systems. The Hydraulic systems are complex too, but they can still be worked on. If your computers go fritz, and they are no longer making replacement parts for them, you are simply out of luck, not to mention the COST of those parts. I believe that the more complex you make a machine, the more can and will go wrong with it. I just don't see todays tractors running, let alone being restored in 50 yrs. Cast iron and steel are made to last. Plastic and fiberglass is made to throw away.

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Texasmark1

04-05-2013 08:00:47
75.107.52.180



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to sgtbull, 04-05-2013 01:02:59  
I have not had a single instance of a computer problem with any of my equipment, on or off road dating back to when it first came to be. Actually I have had minimal problems with all of it.

On my P/U I am getting a 70% increase in fuel economy with way more power with a smaller engine, on ethanol to boot.

Some facts:

Current New tractor, some electronics, no computer controlled injection, zero problems since new in '07.

'88 Ford 150 p/u, mechanical emission problem and one fuel sending unit failed; paint failed....but Ford repainted it and fixed the problems in '90 for free. Some kind of customer kindness program...bad publicity on their water based paint which was new then.

'98 Dodge (Ram) 1500 p/u, one A/C seal.
'05 Dodge 1500 p/u, nothing.
'07 Dodge 1500 p/u, turn signal switch (concurrent ownership with the '05)
'11 Silverado 1500, nothing.

The above speaks for itself. Manufacturers are serious about quality these days.

Mark

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Texasmark1

04-04-2013 18:46:50
75.107.52.180



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Big Jugs, 04-04-2013 18:27:57  
I have had a 4010, 4020, and 4230....newer model 4020. Two were diesels and one LP.

I currently have a 4 year old tractor I bought new with a Cummins 3 liter naturally aspired diesel. HP is 65 engine, 57 PTO. Fuel efficiency on the new tractor is much improved from the old ones. Reasons could be technology, or the fact that the new one is just below the 10, or because it's 4wd. Don't know.

I also currently have a couple of '60's Ford diesel utility tractors in the 30-40 hp range and they get exceptional economy.

So I have the best of both I guess.

On the new one, the rearfenders are fiberglass, as is the top of the cab (my deere was plastic too) of the quality of a fine boat but the rest of the exterior is steel. The cab interior is part metal and part plastic. The plastic is non functional facade.

I like both.

Mark

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Tx Jim

04-05-2013 03:54:22
67.142.163.25



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Texasmark1, 04-04-2013 18:46:50  
Comparing fuel economy of 57 pto hp vs an 80-116 pto hp tractor isn't comparing apples to apples & oranges to oranges. I agree it will be interesting to see how these newer plastic/electronic tractors hold up but I've read of some YT members that have operated some of the newer ones way up over 10,000 hrs.
This post was edited by Tx Jim at 03:58:18 04/05/13.



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Texasmark1

04-05-2013 07:43:13
75.107.52.180



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Tx Jim, 04-05-2013 03:54:22  
Well Jimbo sir, that's all I have for a comparison.

But we have kicked this old dog before and I am impressed at what work function I get out of this new one, whether you believe it or not and I may have fudged a little on the Hay King...but I had mud that far up the shanks....maybe it's because I ran it tilted back rather than horizontal and the mud included loose dirt as well as from the surface down.

And didn't you mention the other day that you have an orange one in your yard alongside your beloved green? Grin

In jest.

Mark

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Tx Jim

04-05-2013 09:19:30
67.142.163.20



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Texasmark1, 04-05-2013 07:43:13  
Mark

If you'll notice my original post was not directed at you but I was only making a statement.

I do have a 65 pto hp Orange tractor but I'm certainly not stating that it will outperform any color(green or otherwise) of nearly twice the hp. I also don't understand why you choose to bring my Kubota tractor into this thread :wink:
This post was edited by Tx Jim at 09:23:01 04/05/13.

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Texasmark1

04-06-2013 16:56:39
75.107.52.180



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Tx Jim, 04-05-2013 09:19:30  
Because I down sized too and mine is red. Just passin time.

Mark



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larryanderson

04-05-2013 05:15:27
184.21.172.50



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 Re: old tractors vs new tractors in reply to Tx Jim, 04-05-2013 03:54:22  
In have both and the computers and plastic are offset by comfort and economy.Certain older tractors have great resale partly due to the high cost of new ones.I have had nice original New Gen tractors that have sold for double their original value and I have new ones that are worth less everyday and can only be repaired at a JD service center.We are doing 10 times the work with 5 times the H.P.and half the fatigue.I like old cars and horses but main the reason is to get the feeling of younger days and that is priceless.I wouldnt trade my wife for a new model as I could not afford it.She might.

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