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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return

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buickanddeere

02-16-2013 09:49:45
184.151.63.178



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Not a direct return to the transmission case or the the front pump will cavitate and loose capacity. Return oil from high gpm flow hydraulic loads must return to the transmission hydraulic oil filter . Between the trans pump outlet and the inlet side of the filter. Yes that is correct. Either use a ported hydraulic filter cover or "T" into the SCV return that routes oil down to beside the filter housing.

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Mike Aylward

02-16-2013 18:34:15
209.152.135.126



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 Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-16-2013 09:49:45  
The early model vacuum planters (single fan) used somewhere around 3-5 gallons per minute which is well within the range of Waterloo tractors from the late 20 series on up. The reason for the "open" return is so the vacuum motor can have a no-restriction return for full and consistent flow. Mike



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LarrySTN

02-16-2013 12:05:27
69.68.35.50



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 Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-16-2013 09:49:45  
B&D is spot on! If you return a high volume oil (ie hydraulic motor..vaccum motor on corn planter) to the sump, the transmission pump will NOT supply enough oil to the hydraulic pump and hydraulics will go to heck. ALL hydraulic return should be returned to the filter housing or teed line to the filter housing as B&D stated. The selective control valves (remote outlets) already do this, so when adding power beyond make sure it does also.

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Tx Jim

02-17-2013 05:33:56
67.142.163.24



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 Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to LarrySTN, 02-16-2013 12:05:27  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Larry
It's been many years since I sat behind a JD dealer service managers desk. Will you PLEASE refresh my memory on how the return oil from a ""RH scv"" on a 4020/4430 gets routed to the hyd filter?? Thanks,Jim



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buickanddeere

02-17-2013 12:55:29
209.240.116.36



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 Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Tx Jim, 02-17-2013 05:33:56  
Isn't there something in the operator's manual about that right scv and high flow loads? And some have a valve to turn in the scv for equipment with single acting rams? So oil returns to the trans sump with minimal back pressure? What ever the case, that oil return from the vacuum motor needs to be routed into that rockshaft return line. The proper port in a power beyond block. Or into a ported filter cover.

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Tx Jim

02-17-2013 13:42:45
67.142.163.25



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 Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-17-2013 12:55:29  
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That statement about high flow loads isn't in my 4255 operators manual. OK according to you JD engineers put that sump oil return outlet in the parts catalog for no good reason. Evidently you didn't read/comprehend Mike Aylward's post.



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buickanddeere

02-17-2013 18:23:55
209.240.116.36



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 Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Tx Jim, 02-17-2013 13:42:45  
I completely missed Mike's post about the small low flow planters. Yes the direct return to sump will reduce fam motor seal pressure on old simple cheap motors.And the trans pump will keep up. Now getting back to the hydrualic flow that a 12 row planter requires.............



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Tx Jim

02-18-2013 06:27:45
67.142.163.22



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 Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-17-2013 18:23:55  
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I thought that a 12 row was what we were discussing. At least the photo schematic of the hyd sump connection came out of a 1760 parts catalog.



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Tx Jim

02-16-2013 10:24:04
67.142.163.25



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 Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-16-2013 09:49:45  
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The is no SCV return line beside hyd filter housing on a Waterloo tractor to tee into but there is a ""rockshaft return"" line.



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Tx Jim

02-16-2013 10:08:37
67.142.163.25



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 Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-16-2013 09:49:45  

buickanddeere said: (quoted from post at 12:49:45 02/16/13) Not a direct return to the transmission case or the the front pump will cavitate and loose capacity.


b&d

Please explain why JD shows a "SUMP" return kit for Waterloo tractors if the JD engineers think it won't work??? 80 - SUMP COUPLER -(30-60 SERIES TRACTORS) JD also lists 79 - Sump Coupler Kit For Vacuum Blower Return Line (8000 & 9000 Series Tractors)



JD also lists an auxiliary return line kit for 50 & 55 series utilities.
This post was edited by Tx Jim at 10:18:53 02/16/13 3 times.

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buickanddeere

02-16-2013 12:15:19
184.151.61.91



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 Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Tx Jim, 02-16-2013 10:08:37  
The 8000 and 9000 series tractors use a different hydraulic system design then a 4440. The high flow return line for Waterloo 10 to 60 series was for the hydraulic reset mouldboard ploughs. To obtain enough trip speed .



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Tx Jim

02-16-2013 13:00:29
67.142.163.21



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 Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-16-2013 12:15:19  
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Not exactly. The parts photo's for a "sump return" came out of the parts catalog for a model 1760 planter 2433 - 1760 Wing-Fold (8-Row and 12-Row) Drawn Conservation Planter and 60 Seed Cart - 13Feb13



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