Author	[Modern View]
Bradwi 02-15-2013 18:28:52 70.226.162.11 Report to Moderator	My neighbor is looking at a 1760 12row vacuum planter. He has a 4440 with only two remotes.The planter requires four remotes the way it is currently set up.#1 How hard is it too hook up a power beyond port?#2 How do i plumb the return from the vacuum motors to the hyd reservoir directly.thanks for any help [Reply]   [No Email]
ihman73 02-23-2013 20:31:43 38.114.76.98 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Bradwi, 02-15-2013 18:28:52   There may well have been a change at the 50 series, the boom lift on our sprayer is single acting and causes no issues on the 4755 and usually nothing but headaches on the 4440. But the 1086 is my preferred spraying tractor so the only time the other two have got to spray is when the PTO pump went down and the hyd. pump got put on until we got the other fixed since I have not made the necessary plumbing modifications to run hyd. motors on the 1086. Now that we got the new hypro gear drive on there we should no longer have that issue. The only 2 single acting cyls. that I have never had any issues with on the 4440 oddly enough are the pickup lift cyl. on the round baler and the haybine. All others I've tried will only work at best, occasionally. Fortunately we don't have too many single acting on the place. [Reply]  [No Email]
ihman73 02-21-2013 15:57:17 38.104.162.142 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Bradwi, 02-15-2013 18:28:52   If I remember correctly the left scv (#1) return flow is ported directly to the charge circuit which is where I have the power beyond block on our 4755. Our 1780 has the older style 2 hose motors without a seperate case drain. I run the vac motors off the 3rd scv and return to the pwr. beyond block on the 1st scv. I believe that #1 also has the adjustable orfice(?) for single acting cylinder operation. I always thought it was dumb that there was any extra attention needed when using single acting cylinders. IH tractors would run a single acting off any scv. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 02-22-2013 03:44:03 67.142.163.27 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to ihman73, 02-21-2013 15:57:17   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I agree with you but some posters think both ALL JD newer gen. scv's return oil to the hyd filter circuit. MY JD 4255 will operate a one way cylinder off of either scv without changing anything. Just plug in and go. [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 02-22-2013 07:18:43 184.151.63.254 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Tx Jim, 02-22-2013 03:44:03   As long as there is enough weight on the single acting cylinder to over come the 165psi of transmission charge pressure. The implement will work just fine without having to divert oil direct to sump. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tim S 02-22-2013 07:25:31 68.75.23.42 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-22-2013 07:18:43   Yes, that is where the problem was, if you had some thing light, such as a hay rake, the 165psi charge oil would cushion the return, or even stop it..opening that valve on the side returned it to sump. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 02-22-2013 09:22:32 67.142.163.24 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Tim S, 02-22-2013 07:25:31   Are 55 series scv's different from the ones you're referring to? I can operate the one way cylinders on my 3 pt disk cutter and my H&S wheel rake without changing anything on my 4255. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tim S 02-22-2013 09:30:01 68.75.23.42 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Tx Jim, 02-22-2013 09:22:32   They must be a bit different, the H&S wheel rake is one of the implements that we always had trouble with, I changed the on way acting cylinder for a double acting just so it would work on the different tractors better... [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 02-22-2013 09:46:21 67.142.163.24 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Tim S, 02-22-2013 09:30:01   I've only operated the H&S rake on my JD a limited number of times as it stays mostly on the rd baler but the rake wheels always lowered to the ground. I can't remember for sure which scv that the hose was plugged into but I think it was the RH scv. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tim S 02-22-2013 10:20:10 68.75.23.42 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Tx Jim, 02-22-2013 09:46:21   We run ours on ether the 71 4020 or the 4240 most of the time, the last couple H&S rakes that we have had I changed the cylinders over on them..We square bale every thing and run the 348 baler with a 4440, we run a new swinger Mow-Co with a 4960, which is a bit of an over kill..but it works.. [Reply]  [No Email]
sideconsole4020guy 02-18-2013 19:21:50 216.249.194.192 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Bradwi, 02-15-2013 18:28:52   To do it correctly you need to get a power beyond block and the coupler kit that your JD dealer offers that bolts to the scv. You need to run the return into the side of the scv or the power beyond block. The plug in the rear end case is only for low pressure case drain return the center hose coming from the vac motor, If the planter is new enough or has a newer motor it will have a 3rd hose and that will be a flat face coupler that goes to the rear end case. This is the way that I do it at work which is a JD dealer as a planter mechanic. The return hose on the planter for the motor will either have a screw in plug or will have holes in it as to not allow running the motor backwards. [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 02-16-2013 09:49:45 184.151.63.178 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Bradwi, 02-15-2013 18:28:52   Not a direct return to the transmission case or the the front pump will cavitate and loose capacity. Return oil from high gpm flow hydraulic loads must return to the transmission hydraulic oil filter . Between the trans pump outlet and the inlet side of the filter. Yes that is correct. Either use a ported hydraulic filter cover or "T" into the SCV return that routes oil down to beside the filter housing. [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike Aylward 02-16-2013 18:34:15 209.152.135.126 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-16-2013 09:49:45   The early model vacuum planters (single fan) used somewhere around 3-5 gallons per minute which is well within the range of Waterloo tractors from the late 20 series on up. The reason for the "open" return is so the vacuum motor can have a no-restriction return for full and consistent flow. Mike [Reply]  [No Email]
LarrySTN 02-16-2013 12:05:27 69.68.35.50 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-16-2013 09:49:45   B&D is spot on! If you return a high volume oil (ie hydraulic motor..vaccum motor on corn planter) to the sump, the transmission pump will NOT supply enough oil to the hydraulic pump and hydraulics will go to heck. ALL hydraulic return should be returned to the filter housing or teed line to the filter housing as B&D stated. The selective control valves (remote outlets) already do this, so when adding power beyond make sure it does also. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 02-17-2013 05:33:56 67.142.163.24 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to LarrySTN, 02-16-2013 12:05:27   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Larry It's been many years since I sat behind a JD dealer service managers desk. Will you PLEASE refresh my memory on how the return oil from a ""RH scv"" on a 4020/4430 gets routed to the hyd filter?? Thanks,Jim [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 02-17-2013 12:55:29 209.240.116.36 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Tx Jim, 02-17-2013 05:33:56   Isn't there something in the operator's manual about that right scv and high flow loads? And some have a valve to turn in the scv for equipment with single acting rams? So oil returns to the trans sump with minimal back pressure? What ever the case, that oil return from the vacuum motor needs to be routed into that rockshaft return line. The proper port in a power beyond block. Or into a ported filter cover. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 02-17-2013 13:42:45 67.142.163.25 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-17-2013 12:55:29   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see That statement about high flow loads isn't in my 4255 operators manual. OK according to you JD engineers put that sump oil return outlet in the parts catalog for no good reason. Evidently you didn't read/comprehend Mike Aylward's post. [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 02-17-2013 18:23:55 209.240.116.36 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Tx Jim, 02-17-2013 13:42:45   I completely missed Mike's post about the small low flow planters. Yes the direct return to sump will reduce fam motor seal pressure on old simple cheap motors.And the trans pump will keep up. Now getting back to the hydrualic flow that a 12 row planter requires............. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 02-18-2013 06:27:45 67.142.163.22 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-17-2013 18:23:55   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I thought that a 12 row was what we were discussing. At least the photo schematic of the hyd sump connection came out of a 1760 parts catalog. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 02-16-2013 10:24:04 67.142.163.25 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-16-2013 09:49:45   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see The is no SCV return line beside hyd filter housing on a Waterloo tractor to tee into but there is a ""rockshaft return"" line. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 02-16-2013 10:08:37 67.142.163.25 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-16-2013 09:49:45   buickanddeere said: (quoted from post at 12:49:45 02/16/13) Not a direct return to the transmission case or the the front pump will cavitate and loose capacity. b&d Please explain why JD shows a "SUMP" return kit for Waterloo tractors if the JD engineers think it won't work??? 80 - SUMP COUPLER -(30-60 SERIES TRACTORS) JD also lists 79 - Sump Coupler Kit For Vacuum Blower Return Line (8000 & 9000 Series Tractors) JD also lists an auxiliary return line kit for 50 & 55 series utilities. This post was edited by Tx Jim at 10:18:53 02/16/13 3 times. [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 02-16-2013 12:15:19 184.151.61.91 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Tx Jim, 02-16-2013 10:08:37   The 8000 and 9000 series tractors use a different hydraulic system design then a 4440. The high flow return line for Waterloo 10 to 60 series was for the hydraulic reset mouldboard ploughs. To obtain enough trip speed . [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 02-16-2013 13:00:29 67.142.163.21 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to buickanddeere, 02-16-2013 12:15:19   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Not exactly. The parts photo's for a "sump return" came out of the parts catalog for a model 1760 planter 2433 - 1760 Wing-Fold (8-Row and 12-Row) Drawn Conservation Planter and 60 Seed Cart - 13Feb13 [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike Aylward 02-16-2013 07:00:06 209.152.135.126 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Bradwi, 02-15-2013 18:28:52   Brad, Jim has the picture of what you need. I have this setup on one of my 4020's to pull my 1760 planter. I added a set of Pioneer couplers that clamped on the housing as well as a high pressure ball valve on the pressure side that lets me hook up the vacuum motor to this circuit without shutting off the tractor. It also lets me power down the vacuum motor as well. Mike [Reply]  [No Email]
4010 farmer 02-16-2013 03:34:00 71.28.12.159 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Bradwi, 02-15-2013 18:28:52   john deere has a power beyond block that goes between the the srv. remotes and the rear end housing. it has ports on the side to give you your power beyond. a lot of guys use these for thier loaders so it doesnt tie up the remotes. my cousin has this set up on his tractor for his planter. i dont have any parts numbers but maybe this will help get you going in the right direction [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 02-16-2013 03:48:52 67.142.163.27 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to 4010 farmer, 02-16-2013 03:34:00   AR71331 KIT, SEL CNTL VAL AUX HYD OUTLET ADD 251.16 80 - SUMP COUPLER -(30-60 SERIES TRACTORS) 1 AH75167 Hydr.Quick Coupler Socket 1 2 AW17006 Plug 1 3 AA14850 Elbow Fitting 1 4 A15532 Adapter Fitting 1 5 H851R Washer 1 Another option would be to add a cable operated 2 spool hyd control valve similar to the one used to control a frt end loader This post was edited by Tx Jim at 03:51:35 02/16/13. [Reply]  [No Email]
Andrew F 02-16-2013 03:03:55 199.87.177.72 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Bradwi, 02-15-2013 18:28:52   You get pressure from any of the scv's. simply take a plug out ot the side of the scv housing (the plug that gives you access to the cam holding screw in the scv). then you return thru the bung on that threatds into the differential housing just above (or maybe to the right of? can't remenber) of the tractor's serial tag. Stand by and I might be able to get you JD bundle #'s when I get to work. [Reply]  [No Email]
Bradwi 02-16-2013 07:09:24 70.226.162.11 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Andrew F, 02-16-2013 03:03:55   Thanks for the help guys this looks pretty straight forward [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 02-16-2013 09:18:47 67.142.163.25 Report to Moderator	Re: 4440 power beyond/vacuum return in reply to Bradwi, 02-16-2013 07:09:24   Brad You might be interested in this but the kit is NLA so the parts would require ordering individually. [Reply]  [No Email]