Should it have been built?

NY 986

Well-known Member
The recent thread about the beautifully restored 2520 got me thinking. Why did Deere choose not to offer a row crop in the 60 and 70 PTO hp class when they went to the 30 series in 1973? The drive line could have been pretty much 2520 and 3020 components with the 2630 engine taking the place of the original 3020 motor. The tractors would have the 30 series styling and features therefore have the possibility of being equipped with SGB's. IH did quite a bit of business with the 544 and 666 and Oliver did quite a bit with the 1655. Using the 20 series design would have meant no huge development costs. The big limitation in my mind would have been availability of factory production time as the 1970's were a boom time for the Waterloo Works. An updated 2520 with SGB would have stormed the market with the only glaring shortcoming being no MFWD.
 

I don't know how much of a success it would have been. Deere thought the 420 was "too powerful" and so continued the 40 as the 320. It didn't sell well. Similar circumstance with the L, The H, the 4000, and frankly, the 2520 (25,000 versus 270,000 4020s, Adding the 2510 in, you only get 40,000 total for the 2510/2520).

I'm sure Deere thought that the row crop utilities would fill that particular niche... Whether or not you think they were right is another discussion.
 
Either they could see the future, or they were making it.
I recently saved my fathers original 2510, so it has sentimental value. But it's too small to even pull a modern wagon around with, so I really need to turn it into something bigger.
The 4030 just wasn't that much bigger, would be nearly as handy, yet there were never very many around here. But everybody had a 4230!
 
I have no problem with the 2030 and 2630 tractors as such. They did offer features such as hi-lo and the direction reverser which would have required substantial redesign if incorporated into the Waterloo chassis. My thought is they could have increased market share substantially as the upgraded 20 series would have been the only tractor on the the market in the 60 to 70 hp range with an optional full power shift and ergonomically advanced cab for the time.
 
Most likely Deere saw no future in the smaller row crops but other manufacturers sold row crops in the size I am talking about. Certainly they are small today but thinking back to the early 1970's the perception may have been different for the farmer. A small dairy farmer back then would have greatly appreciated such a tractor on days like we have had recently equipped with a SGB for chores such as spreading manure. I think Deere could have sold quite a few here in the Northeast and upper Mid-West. No doubt the primary tractor on a lot of farms at the intro of the 30 series was 100 plus hp but still a lot of guys did not like running the big horse on chores that could be done on a smaller tractor. At the same time guys certainly were not going to freeze their tails off out of principle, either.
 
I have disliked the 2020/2030 style tractors from the beginning,,we a bunch of them at the dealership I worked at,,I have seen "all" the bad things, some you would never dream of....I have a 2030 in here now with hydraulic issues,,I can sort them out fairly fast anymore..
 
With the 60 C project done maybe you would not mind building a concept tractor? I forgot to mention my funds for such a project are limited. Maybe before I get too old.
 
Through the 70's and 80's and behond Deere has made more money on it's industrial line and lawn and garden tractors than the ag stuff. In the last few years with crops being worth something, the ag line I'm sure is turning more profit.
 
Well... They sort of did offer them. The 2630/2640 could have been optioned with tall rear tires to increase height.
 
My dad bought and sold used tactors and equipment and in our area(small and city farmers)it was much easier to sell a 2020 than a 2510,but if I have to use it or work on it the 2510 is 10 times the tractor(except for the hyd pump issues some had).Funny thing dad's 2510 had the little hyd. pump and it would outlift either of my 3020's.We used 46A laders on all three.
 
It's fun to dream about what could have been done, but staying in the farm machinery business for 177 years requires more than market share and sales volume. A company must make profit or go out of business.
 
John Deere's line-up in the late 60's was meant to keep interest up in their tractors until the Gen II was announced in late '72. They were simply "keeping up with the Jonse's" aka IHC, AC, White and Case. They swapped engines, rear ends, added turbos, all of which could be done cheaply without major cash outlays in engineering, while producing "new" tractors to stay competitive with the other colors. IH came out with a 1066? Slap a turbo on a 4020 and Poof! 4320. 1486? Poof! 4620. Then the Gen II came and blew all the competition away. By then, the market for 60/70 hp tractors was waning and there were a lot of good used ones out there. Oil prices shot up in '73 and farming quickly had to become more fuel efficient, meaning all of a sudden everyone is going to 6,8 and 12 row stuff, abandoning 4rows. We traded our 4000 for a 4430 in '73 and 4020 for another one in '75. Then the 2010 for a 2640 in '76. Still have the 2510/47 loader combo and it still pulls 4-14's when asked. Cabs? in my area they were considered frivolous until Gen II. Some mounted aftermarket ones on their New Gen models. We didn't even have a cab combine until 1967, when the guys from Cogsdale Implement came to the farm and put one on the 45.
 
In 1973 Deere could sell every Gen 2 Waterloo tractor (4430 etc.) they could get move out the factory door. There was a waiting list for those tractors and they were selling for close to list price. Farming was profitable, farms were getting bigger and farmers were trading in nearly new tractors of any brand to get a bigger tractor with a quiet comfortable cab.

JI Case introduced the first really good cab tractors in 1970 (1070 etc) and the rest of the industry was scrambling to match their cabs. Deere got their Gen 2's to market 1 to 2 years before IH (1974 86 series) and Deere made money hand over fist before the competion caught up and then the farm economy collapsed around 1980.

If the market for tractors would have been slower then a smaller Gen 2 rowcrop tractor might have made sense. With the limited production capacity at Waterloo should Deere have turned away highly profitable orders for 4430's and 4630's to build smaller less profitable tractors?
 
I'am with you on that thought Tim, I've always felt Dubuque (now Mannhiem) engineering & workmanship lacked a lot of design & lasting quality ; and they sure did'nt have the longevity of the Waterloo 3020 - 4020 engines...
 
Even with the larger tractors around here, I use my 2520 for more chores than any other. I, too, dislike the smaller chassis on the 2020 to 2640's, and much prefer the more versatile row crop. I can't use it on the larger machinery, or even feel safe pulling silage with it, but it runns a blower fine and is easier to mow with than any other thing around here, but even our manure spreader is too big for it. The biggest thing is that it sips fuel in comparison to the big ones, and that makes it worth keeping.
 
Yes,, they are frustrating to repair, I just dread it when one shows up, this one, a 2030, had a hydraulic chatter, which was the outlet valve backed out,,now for the steering the bell crank in the front is wobbled out, tie rods are bad,,they sent all the power for the steering down through the tie rods, they won"t stand the strain, it has one of those silly shifter latches that we had to put on back in the 70"s, I"m doing away with that..
 
The 2520 is a sweet little tractor, we put some 2640 engines in them back in the old days, it really made them stronger,,a little mighty Mouse..
 
Right on 986; I always felt engineers goofed putting a 6 cly. Dubuque engine in the 4030; ( basic 3020 sized tranny & rear end.) it would have been better matched fited with a Dubuque, 276 4 cly. ( or better yet a redesighed, power up, 3020 motor) similer to the power up 404... conserative dairy farmers of the 70's would never think of useing a 100-120 hp tractor to haul out a daily, winter, load of manure from 30 to 40 cow herd.. 50 to 60 hp was enough...
 
(quoted from post at 14:47:50 01/23/13) Through the 70's and 80's and behond Deere has made more money on it's industrial line and lawn and garden tractors than the ag stuff. In the last few years with crops being worth something, the ag line I'm sure is turning more profit.

Not in the 70's and 80's, I don't believe that. I know they were losing money because of the economy, but the ag equipment was still moving. Too many people were going broke thanks to the economy. Equipment was moving, and those that survived, have children that are BFO's right now.
 
(quoted from post at 22:02:16 01/23/13) Right on 986; I always felt engineers goofed putting a 6 cly. Dubuque engine in the 4030; ( basic 3020 sized tranny & rear end.) it would have been better matched fited with a Dubuque, 276 4 cly. ( or better yet a redesighed, power up, 3020 motor) similer to the power up 404... conserative dairy farmers of the 70's would never think of useing a 100-120 hp tractor to haul out a daily, winter, load of manure from 30 to 40 cow herd.. 50 to 60 hp was enough...

I agree with this. Dad brought me up with using the right tool for the job. If the spreader didn't need 100hp, well, we used something smaller, even if there wasn't a cab. It's quite different these days. I see 4840's on stalk choppers and I even use my 4440 on the haybine. Its a 499NH. I like the ride and the cab.
 
Remember the dairy buyouts from around 1980 and the PIK program not to grow corn. By the late 70's things were not going in a good direction for ag sales.
 
Deere did build a prototype in the Waterloo 4030 chassis, it had a 276ci with a turbocharger. There is a engineering photo of one with a cab and a friend has an open station with a narrow front. Fun tractor with quad range.

The 4030 is just an overgrown 2510/2520. Same engine with two more cylinders and same transmission. I think the 4030s bad rap of being underpowered comes from people expecting it to replace a 4020 since it has 6 cylinders.
 

Deere never made the claim that the 4030 replaced the 4020. I have a sales brochure from fall of 1972 that states that the 4030 is the replacement for the 3020 - with 9 more HP!

So there you have it, 986. It was sort of built and it still didn't sell that well, just like the 2520 and the 2510. Don't get me wrong, I like the 2520. but it simply wasn't a popular tractor. Same for the 4030 - under 17,000 built.

The most popular tractor in Deere's lineup has always gone up from the early B's to the late A's to the 60 to 720, 730 to the 85 hp 4010, 4020 4430 4440 4450 etc. Up up up.

So Deere didn't make a soundgard 2520-sized tractor. Did it hurt them? IH made the 666 and 544 (why you consider them "good", I don't know) and Oliver made the 1655 - so what? Did those models keep them in business?

14115.jpg
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top