Author	[Modern View]
DaninKansas 12-28-2012 16:51:56 64.6.122.12 Report to Moderator	A while back I posted about bringing my baler to the dealership because it was missing one in twenty bales on one side. I got it back and it failed to knot at all on one side. I brought it back to them and they "worked" on it again. Got it back the second time, the one side that wouldn't knot now won't even catch twine to make a knot and the other side that was knotting fine all along now won't knot at all. I called the dealership and let them know that they still hadn't fixed anything (I didn't get pissy or anything, just thought they should know). They said they had chore tractors in and were busy with them for now and I agreed it would come back after the first of the year. Got the mail today, and noticed they had sent me a bill, and thought they had a lot of nerve considering they had taken my working baler and made it into a nonworking baler. Bill total - $1700. What would you do? [Reply]   [No Email]
DaninKansas 12-30-2012 02:13:48 64.6.122.12 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   How long should it take to adjust the timing on a baler that hasn't lost time? This thing was in time when it went in, they replaced the chains and then apparently had a very hard time setting the timing afterwards. My problem is I fully expected a $800 to $1000 bill, but I also expected a well tuned working baler that wouldn't need much service in the next couple years. [Reply]  [No Email]
JD Seller 12-30-2012 07:51:39 208.126.196.144 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-30-2012 02:13:48   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Like I said I bet that the youngest(lowest paid service tech) they had worked on your baler. Then he had to spend time "studing" the manual to try to learn how to set/adjust the baler. You paid for the work and training him. The only thing I can say in their defense is that on an old 14T you have to some times "cheat" the timing just a little because of wear on the knotter drive gears. What happens is you line it all up like the manual says to do it and you find that the chains want to be between links to line up with the sprockets. SO you have to think about what direction the knotters are being driven then take the slack out in that direction and install the chain then. Adjusting the rest of the knotter is not that hard IF you have some experience in adjusting them. If it is your first few times it can take awhile. I sure would not have wanted to have been charged $100 per hour the first few times I was learning how to adjust them. If the 14T was mine I would have just boughten an original operators book and adjusted it myself. Then if you had any issues you could have asked on here. There are several people on here that can adjust knotters well enough to help on line or on the phone. [Reply]  [No Email]
JD Seller 12-29-2012 21:40:13 208.126.196.144 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   The knotters on a JD 14T are just adjusted like the ones used clear to date. Your dealer more than likely does not have anyone that has worked on many square balers. You need a few gray hairs on your head from working on a few to get them set correctly. There are three JD dealerships around me. One has an older mechanic than can work on them and get them working in a timely manner. The other two put the youngest and least experienced mechanic on any balers they get. The Service managers at both dealers says they can't afford to put a good tech on a $1000 piece of equipment. Needless to say I get a lot of knotter work from their customers. The sad thing is, until these two dealerships got bought out by one BIG chain, they would admit that they did not have the people to do it correctly. I have done a lot of knotter work right in their shop. They would call and asked me if I would come and work/train some of their guys on knotters. Now that big chain managers will not have any one but JD "certified" mechanics do any repair. Well it is funny that I have the certifications. They just don't show on JDs computer because I did the classes in the late 1980s before they kept the records. What they are doing is making the local New Holland dealer a lot of money. He is getting most of the new square balers sold. He has three guys that a pretty good on balers. Plus they will ask/and give help. Just a few weeks ago they had a JD 348 traded in that was not tying correctly. I went up and fine tuned it for them. My pay was lunch with the store owner. We help each other when we get stuck on things. The new JD management type don't like to work that way. They think they are losing income by helping any outside shop. I bet that you will never take a piece of equipment in to your dealer again to be repaired if you can help it. You are going to be paying more than your baler is worth in a shop ticket. You Can NOT have a shop charging $75-$100 an hour working on a 50 year old baler. [Reply]  [No Email]
sideconsole4020guy 12-29-2012 14:44:28 216.249.194.192 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   I just checked on my JD pathways and there is a distance learning class for square baler knotters so I stand corrected on that. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 12-29-2012 14:52:05 67.142.163.27 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to sideconsole4020guy, 12-29-2012 14:44:28   If the dealership had no technician that was very knowledgeable on a sq baler then the service manager should have never filled out a work order and accepted the REPAIR JOB!!!!!!! [Reply]  [No Email]
Tim S 12-29-2012 16:27:42 75.49.13.105 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to Tx Jim, 12-29-2012 14:52:05   Exactly Jim,,it would have been better to say no to the job,,and I"m sure that service manager wishes that he did by now... [Reply]  [No Email]
NoDakInMN 12-29-2012 11:33:47 76.10.68.191 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   As for the bill, I would call the dealer. Often the billing department and the service department are not on the same page. [Reply]  [No Email]
machinery-man 12-29-2012 07:10:26 69.196.221.251 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   your issue seems tricky as it seems you didn't have a clear understanding before you had machine in shop. If you had an agreement with the dealer that they would guarantee repairs and positive results you might have a good basis for asking for adjustments or money back. I doubt that a dealer would agree to this. Sounds to me that you allowed the dealer to work on it time and parts. Before I would consider this I personally would have a stop agreement as to cost. Now having said that I have a friend that has their mower serviced strickly at JOhn Deere. They pick it up change oil and return. After a recent use they noted oil all over the rear of the mower. As a friend I looked at it and it seemed to be the shut off valve and I suggested a new valve. Also offered to take to my place and test but they declined. Anyway they took to shop, took engine apart, you name it. Ran up a $2000 bill. When mower returned owner said mower didn't leak till dealer serviced and as I understand refused to pay. Dealership as I understand it wrote off repairs. I still think it was only a $20 valve that had gotten galded in an oil change. But now I would wonder about a relationship. If you want to trash the relationship I suppose you can try the same thing but they may take your credit to court. Like I said before an agreement as to what is to be done and extent of work is the best. Good luck. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ray 12-29-2012 09:38:47 74.5.145.85 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to machinery-man, 12-29-2012 07:10:26   Especially when it's only a 500 dollar baler to start with. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 12-29-2012 09:44:23 67.142.163.27 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to Ray, 12-29-2012 09:38:47   14 hrs labor is A LOT just to put on 2 chains,2 billhooks and some adjustments. [Reply]  [No Email]
silverado 12-29-2012 05:35:36 64.12.117.12 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   If you cannot resolve it locally get a hold of the factory dealer representative even if you got to go to the corporate level. if they dont know how to work on it then they should tell you , you are not supposed to be paying for their mechanics education in this case blunders. My dealer tried this crap once when the Deere representative showed up the issue was resolved immediately. [Reply]  [No Email]
sideconsole4020guy 12-29-2012 14:41:51 216.249.194.192 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to silverado, 12-29-2012 05:35:36   I would highly doubt that a factory dealer rep would care about a piece of equipment that is 50 + years old and is wore out. Maybe there were other parts that were wore out and caused it to be hard to time, I worked on one that if you did the measurements exactly like the book said it wouldnt time up and if you fudged the measurements some it would work. I guess that maybe if more people wanted to use idiot cubers then maybe then dealers would care more about them and im not even sure there are square baler classes offered by JD right now any way. Its just one of those things. Also a guy I work with was down this road with a 336 baler. He worked on it and it knotted fine in the shop, the guy gets it home and goes to bale with it and the knots dont hold, well he goes out there and the guy is trying to make 150lb idiot cubes. he backs the tenison down and rides on the baler hood for an hour and it works just fine after backing the tension down. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 12-29-2012 03:54:51 67.142.163.20 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to buickanddeere, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see A good technician would only have to time the baler one time if chains were new and snug. If knotter was only missing ties on on side every 15-20 bales then I think adjustments would have solved the tying problem. As a former service manager I also agree with Jake Winn that you should go talk to SM and possibly store manager if SM & you can't come to a satisfactory agreement. [Reply]  [No Email]
larryanderson 12-29-2012 03:03:42 184.21.172.50 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   Usually things like this can be worked out by just setting down and talking to dealer[owner]Bad P.R. is the last thing anyone wants as the bad news travels 10 times faster than good.The manual plus an older mechanic that used to work on them is your best bet.Balers probably were never mentioned in tech school. [Reply]  [No Email]
Bob Harvey 12-28-2012 19:47:11 209.121.225.193 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   Dan, I, like you would be pixxed ! You are dealing with an 'older' piece of equipment and youth. I'll bet NONE of the "mechanics" in that shop have ANY idea (or training) on your machine. For sure the dealer (probly a business guy that figured he make $$ selling) knows nuttin'. Best of luck to you. There are guys that may be closer to you on this Forum that may be able to help. HNY. b [Reply]  [No Email]
Jake Winn 12-28-2012 19:36:54 174.22.14.57 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   As a service manager at a Deere dealer and former baler tech, I see both sides of this. Did they ever come to the field and check the machine in operation? Sometimes there are adjustments and things that happen in the field that you just cant figure out in the shop. Im not sure what the labor rate is at your dealer, but at say $85 per hour, it doesnt take long to get a grand in something, and at todays parts prices, another $700 would be pretty easy. That being said, the tech and service manager should know that you shouldnt put a grand into a 14T baler, thats just going backwards. The machine may be at a point where you cant fix due to parts being available. My suggestion is go in and set up time to talk it over with the Service Manager, Tech, and even the Store Manager. It may get it figured out, it may not. Thats the only way youre going to know for sure. Good luck. [Reply]  [No Email]
DaninKansas 12-28-2012 21:27:42 64.6.122.12 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to Jake Winn, 12-28-2012 19:36:54   They never saw it in operation. I brought it to them with a couple of the failed knots showing them the issue it was having. The knot would pull apart - according to the manual it was caused by excessive tension (by the pictures in the manual showing different issues the knotters might have). I told them to make that adjustment and replace the main drive chains chains. From my understanding the "tech" has timed this baler 4-5 times - obviously it is getting worse with each attempt. [Reply]  [No Email]
DaninKansas 12-28-2012 21:22:03 64.6.122.12 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to Jake Winn, 12-28-2012 19:36:54   14 hours of labor - $100 per hour. The only new parts they put on are two chains and the new bills on both knotters (I don't know why - they worked before they touched them). They haven't said anything about parts that are not available (I have a parts baler). [Reply]  [No Email]
Tim S 12-28-2012 18:20:41 75.49.13.105 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   I"m not surprised....non of the dealers around here have any one that can fix a knotter..and non of them want to deal with them... [Reply]  [No Email]
430 12-28-2012 17:22:49 66.87.114.232 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   I know its the low road, but I'd make a scene at the dealership. I don't think I'm as easy going as you. You deserve great credit for not blowing up on them. [Reply]  [No Email]
DaninKansas 12-28-2012 18:18:18 64.6.122.12 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to 430, 12-28-2012 17:22:49   Up to this point I hadn't had a bill. [Reply]  [No Email]
Bill Lisbon 12-28-2012 17:06:15 69.89.163.167 Report to Moderator	Re: Dealer issue with 14T baler again in reply to DaninKansas, 12-28-2012 16:51:56   I would talk to my lawyer. 14T balers have pretty simple knotters. Any good dealer should be able to have it working in no time. I have worked on many 14T's and they all worked when I was done. [Reply]  [No Email]