Author	[Modern View]
jdub 08-27-2012 03:25:45 198.108.109.126 Report to Moderator	Hi all. '41 'H' had some whiney type of noise @ where gov gear and fan shaft gear meet in the gov housing. replaced all bearings and packing in fan shaft thinking that might have been the problem. Noise was still there so took gov housing off the tractor and figured it was time to buy new pinion gears (not cheap). Had the old ones pressed off and the new put on. Made sure they were heel to heel for the correct mesh and gear play. Put it back together and still has the noise. All other bearings have been replaced on the gov shaft as well also the cam, crank, clutch.... Any thoughts on what else the noise could be ? Thanks [Reply]   [No Email]
rusty wheel 08-27-2012 12:40:02 75.180.23.218 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to jdub, 08-27-2012 03:25:45   There is a procedure spelled out in Pat Brownings JD H restoration guide to quiet governor gear noise. It involves moving the fan end of the shaft either up or down or sideways just a little while the tractor is running. [Reply]  [No Email]
jdub 08-28-2012 03:12:35 207.72.4.97 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to rusty wheel, 08-27-2012 12:40:02   Thanks R.W. but tried it to no avail. Even pushed and pulled fan shaft with tractor running with little difference with the noise...running out of ideas on how to fix it. [Reply]  [No Email]
leon 08-27-2012 07:54:57 173.31.147.196 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to jdub, 08-27-2012 03:25:45   Your story sounds all too familiar to me. I wonder if the noise just might be coming from the mesh between the gear on the camshaft and the gear on the governor housing cross shaft. [Reply]  [No Email]
judub 08-27-2012 11:25:22 75.119.32.192 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to leon, 08-27-2012 07:54:57   Was thinking of that also Leon but it sure sounds like the noise is comming more from those pinion gears. The I&T manual says you can "adjust the cam gear backlash by rotating the eccentrically machined camshaft left bearing housing a 1/4 turn". That housing sure looks the same to me all around but I guess I'll give it a try. I'll let you know what happens in case you want to try it... [Reply]  [No Email]
leon 08-27-2012 11:41:09 173.31.147.196 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to judub, 08-27-2012 11:25:22   Hmmm - that's a new one to me. Please let us know what happens. Maybe Dan will chime in on that - I bet he knows. [Reply]  [No Email]
dan_41jdh 08-27-2012 15:48:27 24.149.8.64 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to leon, 08-27-2012 11:41:09   Frank and jdub are correct regarding the eccentric housing of the LH cam bearing. This detail started with S/N 10000, when the LH cam bearing arrangement changed from a 3-bolt cover (bearing was fitted to a bored hole in the case) to a 4-bolt flanged housing that had a bore for the bearing that was non-concentric to the housing O.D. As Frank said, FSB 145-S outlined the details of this arrangement, and the stated purpose was to permit adjustment to backlash due to wear between the crankshaft gear and the camshaft gear. According to the FSB, when those gears become worn, excessive backlash will exist and a "knocking noise may be heard in the engine...", so adjustment is necessary. Apparently, the "knocking" only occurs between the crank and cam gears. The FSB doesn't address the fact that by reducing backlash between those two gears by changing the center distance with the cam bearing housing, the backlash between the cam gear and the governor gear increases. I guess they weren't too concerned about excessive backlash at that location... Anyway, noise from the spiral-bevel gearset of the fan can be described as a "howl" that sounds to me like a cat with its tail stepped on. It's definitely not a "knocking" sound. So, adjusting that backlash won't have any effect on fan gear noist. Rusty wheel mentioned another procedure in Pat Browning's restoration guide - Pat got this information from FSB 87-S (July, 1938) which preceded the model "H". In that bulletin, there is a recommendation to move the front fan bearing around to a location where the gear noise is the least - and then, loosen the three capscrews holding the rear fan bearing housing to the governor housing. If the gear noise lessens when the capscrews are loosened, the FSB said to add another shim in that area - even though the gearset was properly "heeled" initially, apparently. Even though this FSB pertained to models "A", "B", "G", and "D", the concept and arrangement is similar to the "H" so it would work the same - but one needs to make sure the fan has proper clearance to the fan shroud. [Reply]  [No Email]
leon 08-28-2012 15:35:17 173.31.147.196 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to dan_41jdh, 08-27-2012 15:48:27   Just ventured into the very hot shed to check mine. I'd say it's still in the original factory position. All four corners are rounded, it's just that one is less rounded than the other three - but can't see one corner very well because it's behind the flywheel. I'll have to try taking some of the slack out and see what happens to noise - after the weather cools off! [Reply]  [No Email]
leon 08-28-2012 03:16:11 173.31.147.196 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to dan_41jdh, 08-27-2012 15:48:27   Without taking the governor housing off to measure, is there a marking on the camshaft bearing cap to indicate which position the cap is in? [Reply]  [No Email]
dan_41jdh 08-28-2012 08:01:21 24.149.8.64 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to leon, 08-28-2012 03:16:11   As Frank indicated, there is only one sharp corner on the housing flange, the others are rounded. This is an illustration from FSB 145-S. Incidentally, the sharp corner cannot be positioned in the 8 o'clock location because it will interfere with the main case casting, according to the FSB. [Reply]  [No Email]
jdub 08-29-2012 13:18:51 75.119.32.192 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to dan_41jdh, 08-28-2012 08:01:21   Thanks Dan and everyone else. Gonna try this maybe this wk end. At a real loss if this doesn't help...Tried pretty much everything else !!! [Reply]  [No Email]
Lee B 08-29-2012 23:39:25 64.37.30.35 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to jdub, 08-29-2012 13:18:51   Look at the wear pattern on the teeth and if it's in the center of the tooth both front and back side then it's good providing the clearance is within .006 or so. The old timers would color differential teeth with blueing and look for that pattern of meshing in the central part of the tooth. You can use magic marker or white out to the same effect. Noise is NOT the thing to go by here. That will go away if everything else is right, but it will still take some time even when everything is perfect. After three full days of plowing or other hard work you should hear significant reduction of this noise. Otherwise don't panic just yet? [Reply]  [No Email]
leon 08-28-2012 12:52:51 173.31.147.196 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to dan_41jdh, 08-28-2012 08:01:21   Dan, Thanks, figured you'd been there, done that. I have Pat Browning's first edition book and don't recall seeing anything in his book about this. Seems strange. [Reply]  [No Email]
F-I-T 08-27-2012 12:39:32 209.74.27.199 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to leon, 08-27-2012 11:41:09   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see That is true. Per Field Service Bulletin # 145-S, Dated 1943, beginning at S/N 10,000, the LH cap was machined off center as you rotated it from one quarter turn to another. So you could get the gears to mesh closer as "0", .005".007", and finally .010"-.014". Only two adjustments after the factory "0". [Reply]  [No Email]
jdub 08-28-2012 03:17:58 207.72.4.97 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to F-I-T, 08-27-2012 12:39:32   So what exactely happens when the cam bearing cover is turned. Does it lower/raise the gear for proper mesh??? [Reply]  [No Email]
F-I-T 08-28-2012 05:35:37 209.74.27.199 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to jdub, 08-28-2012 03:17:58   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Yes, by the amounts I wrote above. The cover has four corners, three are rounded, and is squared off. This is the indicator for the position you have it set at. [Reply]  [No Email]
jdub 08-28-2012 06:10:27 207.72.4.97 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to F-I-T, 08-28-2012 05:35:37   Thanks, I'll give it a try but like Dan mentioned it's more of a " stepped on cats tail" noise... [Reply]  [No Email]
lfnel 08-30-2012 12:26:44 173.27.205.97 Report to Moderator	Re: governor gear in reply to jdub, 08-28-2012 06:10:27   JDUB, One additional thing Dan reminded me of in an e-mail that I hadn't really considered is that when rotating this eccentric bearing quill around the camshaft, it is changing the lash between both sets of gears. That is between the crank-to-cam gear mesh and between the cam-to-governor shaft gear mesh. I'm not sure as to which of these two meshes are applied to by the dimensions Dan provided. [Reply]  [No Email]