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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency

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Jason Z in MO

01-26-2008 08:09:44




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A friend of mine is looking at a really nice 3020 gas. I have been reading the archives trying to learn more about the 3020 gas fuel efficiency. I found one comment that the 3020 gas was rated pretty poor during its tests.

Would he be better off looking for a diesel? How were they for cold weather starting and fuel efficiency?

I have him sold on Deere products and he needs something in the 3020 hp range. I have 4020's but have never operated a 3020.


Thanks!
Jason

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Jason Z in MO

01-26-2008 19:30:09




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to Jason Z in MO, 01-26-2008 08:09:44  
This afternoon my friend and I looked at the 3020 first hand. The tractor is very nice, very sharp tractor all around. Good paint job and attention to detail. Has what looks to be original syncro range shift pattern decal and hour meter and the dash wasn't repainted. I would say the tractor was indoors for all the hours it wasn't running.

Currently, has 7812 hours was completely rebuilt at 3500 hours due to burning oil. Clean exhaust today but was a little black under load and throttling up; maybe a little rich. After talking with the owner I know the guy who rebuilt it so I will call him tomorrow. Started great in the cold weather.

Good points:
new tires all around
new radiator, thermostat etc
New temp and gas gauges
all original 3 point
540-1000 RPM PTO
new brakes
3 pt cylinder rebuilt
dry load control shaft
transmission quiet and smooth
very nice Farmhand 520 loader with joystick control. Plumbed seperately from the hydraulic remotes. Also painted.
New engine wire harness
New battery New muffler
Very dry and clean

Bad points:
single remote (right now he doesn't need a second remote)
Had to hut to find 8th gear
throttle would pop down from 2000rpm to 1200 by just bumping the lever. Needs to be adjusted/friction.
schwartz wide front-end, each knee/spindle has been welded
Hydraulic pump hums or buzzes when there is no demand for oil; lines vibrate too. Stroke control valve?

asking price $10,500.

Wish it had a Deere front end and the pump concerns me. The rest should be easy fixes.

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Gerald J.

01-26-2008 20:21:46




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to Jason Z in MO, 01-26-2008 19:30:09  
Side console? Might be a bit high for a none side console though the loader adds quite a bit and that's a recent loader.

The black smoke is running rich. Before I worked over my 4020 it smoked black like an IH 1066 diesel, poured out a cloud when run up after idling a few minutes. The main fix was a new float needle and seat in the Zenith carburetor. Fixing a M-S carburetor is a lot harder. The established fix for a MS is installing a Zenith. The MS carb is rectangular diecast aluminum, the Zenith is oval cast iron.

I asked the local dealer's shop guru on gas engines about my 4020 running rich and he said, "I have ways of leaning it out, but until you have replaced the float needle and seat, I won't talk to you." I had them in a sack in my hand at the time and I've not gone back to see him. I have it lean enough (without adjusting the carburetor) that it needs choking to start when warm. That's lean enough for me.

Gerald J.

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Jason Z in MO

01-26-2008 20:16:02




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to Jason Z in MO, 01-26-2008 19:30:09  
I made a mistake in the hours. It has 7812 but was rebuilt at 4500 so has 3312 hours on the rebuild.

I should have also mentioned this is an early model, Non console. Very late 1967 model SN 111xxx.



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Mike M

01-26-2008 13:12:26




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to Jason Z in MO, 01-26-2008 08:09:44  
I'd say it all depends on how many hours you plan to run it ? We have a 4020 GAS and love it for what we do which is not too much. Start GREAT in the winter for snow plowing. Makes a good cheap big tractor that is up to big tasks when needed. You just fill up more often during those heavy use times. The 2630,or 2640 makes a good tractor too and may be better suited for more hours of use to save fuel.

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Nylon4020

01-26-2008 11:37:43




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to Jason Z in MO, 01-26-2008 08:09:44  
I have a diesel 4020 and 790. If I were faced with choosing diesel over gas again I would probably go for gas. I am very cold weather so diesel is pain in the rear both for starting and for diesel addatives and keeping another type of fuel around. Plus gas is much cheaper than even off road diesel. I use mainly for utility and mowing and hay work. So really would be better off with gas. And Gerald has tuning tips that really perform...plus the historical data to boot. As far as tractors. Another option...hate to say it on a green board is the farmall 460. Great tractor....put a loader on it. Cheap and plentiful. Make sure that it has the options needed. Only thing that bugs me about IH is no differential lock.

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Gerald J.

01-26-2008 09:56:41




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to Jason Z in MO, 01-26-2008 08:09:44  
I looked at that question on 4020 a few years ago. I bought a gas 4020. The $4000 price premium for a diesel would have bought 65 cent (farm price) a gallon gasoline for 14 years of operation. All the fuel for those 14 years.

Things were worn, like the float needle and seat and choke and it used even more fuel than rated and burned 400 gallons the first year working the same ground and passes that took three times the hours with a MF-135 on 100 gallons of fuel. After weaning the 4020 did that task on 250 gallons of gasoline.

The gas tractor probably can run on ethanol based fuels with some tuning, I know how to tune a gas engine, gas engines tend to be far easier starters in cold weather, the original diesel injection pump has a reputation of needing a $500 rebuild at this age. When I was shopping biodiesel wasn't available.

The generator on either gas or diesel is wimpy and for short operating periods it won't keep up. At night it won't keep up. An alternator is in order. The 24 volt system for the diesel works, but requires extra care and some users don't understand it to give it the right care.

Like the 4020 there are three versions of the 3020 family, early, middle, and side console. I don't know about the 3020 but the 4020 side console is so different it has its own parts catalog and shop manual. Early would be oilbath air cleaner. Wiring is totally different for each of those three stages. You can get a hint of the differences by studying the I&T manual for less invested cash than the Deere shop manuals.

Gerald J.

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Bruno

01-26-2008 08:45:12




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 Nebraska tests in reply to Jason Z in MO, 01-26-2008 08:09:44  
1963 3020 G 10.37 HP hrs/gal
1963 3020 D 12.71 HP hrs/gal
1966 3020 G SR 10.66 HP hrs/gal
1966 3020 D SR 13.87 HP hrs/gal
1969 3020 G PS 9.77 HP hrs/gal
1969 3020 G SR 10.91 HP hrs/gal



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4020LP

01-26-2008 08:39:46




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to Jason Z in MO, 01-26-2008 08:09:44  
Does he have to have a row-crop tractor, or does he just need 70 horsepower? The diesel in the 3020's were OK, but tended to be reluctant starters when cold,and compared to a 4020, were doggy and slow to rev, partially because of that balancer that also had to be accelerted to engine speed. 3020 gas-burners were not known for their fuel efficiency, but like with any tractor, it makes a difference in how many hours he's going to put on it per year. If he needs a general purpose 70 horsepower JD tractor, I'd suggest a 2630. They have good fuel economy, start well in cold temps, many had the Hi-Lo transmission for 16 speeds. Nothing really wrong with the 3020's, but for not much more money, the 2630 is a far better all-around tractor, IMHO.

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R. John Johnson

01-26-2008 13:05:34




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to 4020LP, 01-26-2008 08:39:46  
IF he is considering other Deere tractors in that hp range don't overlook a 2750 or a 2755. Good starters, reasonably fuel efficient, runs a 245 loader well. Only weak points on ours has been the clutch and AC.

John



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buickanddeere

01-26-2008 13:03:17




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to 4020LP, 01-26-2008 08:39:46  
As a kid we had a middle series 24V 3020 around the place. It started very well in the winter to 20-25F without pre-heating Although pre-heating the coolant and oil for a few hours was performed if it was known the tractor would be required ahead of time. There is no excuse for beating the starter, battery, charging system and engine in general. With cold starts when pre-heating is an option.

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Jason Z in MO

01-26-2008 08:56:30




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to 4020LP, 01-26-2008 08:39:46  
No, he doesn't need a row crop tractor. He runs some cows and needs a decent tractor cut and bale hay as well as a utility tractor. If he doesn't find one with a loader eventually he will want one.

I will look for some 2630's in our area, thanks for the suggestion!



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Jason Z in MO

01-26-2008 08:46:42




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to 4020LP, 01-26-2008 08:39:46  
No, he doesn't need a row crop tractor. He runs some cows and needs a decent tractor cut and bale hay as well as a utility tractor. If he doesn't find one with a loader eventually he will want one.

I will look for some 2630's in our area, thanks for the suggestion!



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RickB

01-26-2008 14:37:53




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to Jason Z in MO, 01-26-2008 08:46:42  
2630's were a low production tractor compared to a 3020. May be a small advantage in engine, and that's debatable. They are great if you like riding around with a tractor between your legs. From the flywheel back, they aren't half the tractor a 3020 is. The weak link on the 3020 diesel is not the engine, but availabiliity of a crankshaft if there is an engine failure. I grew up on two late side console 3020's and they were very, very nice tractors indeed.

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4020LP

01-27-2008 07:02:53




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to RickB, 01-26-2008 14:37:53  
Nobody said there's anything wrong with a 3020, but if the man isn't going to row-crop, a 2630 is a better tractor for all-around utility purposes. No, it's not as stout in the rear end as a 3020, but it doesn't need to be, either. The 2630 will start better in the winter, and none of that 24-volt nonsense of the pre-console 3020's to deal with. For what Jason says the man wants to do, a 2630 is simply a better deal,since console 3020's are rising in price every day.

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RickB

01-27-2008 13:34:13




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to 4020LP, 01-27-2008 07:02:53  
He didn't ask about a 2630, we don't have one priced, so how can one be a better deal. We disagree, big deal. There isn't a single task that I would prefer a 2630 over a 3020 for. That's my story.



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4020LP

01-27-2008 17:51:31




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to RickB, 01-27-2008 13:34:13  
Nobody's arguing with you. Jason asked about 3020's or something in the 3020 hp range, which a 2630 is. For some applications, a 3020 is better suited for the job, in others, I'd prefer a 2630, and I've run both. The 2630 is more economical on fuel, if equipped with the Hi-Lo trans has a better selection of speeds, and in most cases will do anything a 3020 will do. All I was doing was trying to provide an alternative. I really don't care what the man buys, but $10.5K for a 1967 gas 3020 with a loader, and some evidence of problems, is just too much money, period, IMHO.

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low budget

01-26-2008 17:47:51




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 Re: 3020 Gas vs Diesel fuel efficiency in reply to RickB, 01-26-2008 14:37:53  
Crankshafts are available aftermarket. Just saw a listing in the Shoup catolog that came in yesterday. Only saw a listing for diesels, $1200 and probably made in China like everything else these days. Shoupparts.com 1-800-627-6137



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