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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question...

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George in Georgia

09-10-2007 15:38:21
199.44.20.240



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Attached are photos of the Roosa-Master/Stanadyne DBG pump I'm rebuilding, emboldened by the help and advice many of you gave me months earlier.

The rebuild was going very, very smoothly using the injection pump rebuild manual and the parts kit purchased on ebay.

HOWEVER:

The cam advance screw broke as I was torquing it up to the specifications called for in the manual. :-(((

It was going well, then I heard a metallic pop and the bolt head cracked in half. So....

Where do I find a replacement?

I searched the web and on Friday sent an email to these guys: http://www.jobbersinc.com/roosamaster.htm

But haven't heard back.

I have a lathe and could make a facsimile out of stainless, but don't know how I'd make the Bristol socket.

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rwskinner

10-05-2007 05:17:51
207.243.120.94



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to George in Georgia, 09-10-2007 15:38:21  
My first pump rebuild. All I can say is the pump rebuild went great and the old gal runs like new.

Not much to the Roosa DBG. With a manual and basic tools it went very smooth. Changed the Rotten Flex Ring out with a solid Govenor Weight cage and changed all the seals, set the roller clearance and the timing advance.

Torque'ing that Cam Screw sure made me nervous. Boy 450"lbs feels tight.

All the parts, including the new cage was about $78 and was a lot cheaper than the $450 to $1000 I was quoted from all the shops. It helped having the Overhaul manual (Deere Roosamaster book).

Thanks to folks in this forum and this thread which pushed me to do it myself.

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rwskinner

09-28-2007 18:21:28
207.243.120.94



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to George in Georgia, 09-10-2007 15:38:21  
Funny, I ordered the Bristol Socket and they sent me a torks 45. When I called they said that is also what Stanadyne sends them and that is what they use. I used it to take my cam screw without any problems. A 40 is loose and will either strip or break it.



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jdemaris

09-11-2007 07:36:21
69.67.230.230



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to George in Georgia, 09-10-2007 15:38:21  
Any good pump shop could of sold you a new screw. Roosamaster # 23925, and Spaco aftermarket part # 08467. Last one I bought new was $12. They break easy if you're not careful. Using the centering-tool helps prevent the breakage.
When taking one out - always rap it first. Do yourself a favor - and update the governor weight retainer to the newer EID style - and eliminate the plastic ring. Also - make sure you update the low-pressure fuel regulator - if it still has the rubber plug - you need to remove it and install a steel bushing in its place. I don't buy from Stanadyne anymore. The Spaco parts have been just as good and cheaper. For your pump a kit is $12.10, a new brass drive bushing $4.83, etc.

JDB seal kit - Stanadyne # 24371 - Spaco U24371 $12.10 JDB pilot tube - Stanadyne # 16320 - Spaco U16320 $4.83
JDB metering valve - $8
JDB pump vanes - kit 20803 - Spaco 09528
New style weight retainer - maybe U7530 - Roosa # 2043 $11.50

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rwskinner

09-28-2007 18:25:26
207.243.120.94



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to jdemaris, 09-11-2007 07:36:21  
Where can a person get the Spaco parts at?



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rwskinner

09-28-2007 18:25:24
207.243.120.94



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to jdemaris, 09-11-2007 07:36:21  
Where can a person get the Spaco parts at?



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rwskinner

09-27-2007 06:26:09
207.243.120.94



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to jdemaris, 09-11-2007 07:36:21  
Hate to rob the thread, but how hard is it to change just the flex coupling? Does the pump have to be completely torn down?

I have one that runs great as long as the return check valve is removed. It occassionally stops it up from flex coupling parts.



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rwskinner

09-28-2007 18:18:26
207.243.120.94



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to rwskinner, 09-27-2007 06:26:09  
I got it apart, it was stubborn. Hopefully the manual makes it soon so I can torque it up.



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jdemaris

09-27-2007 10:17:14
69.67.231.32



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to rwskinner, 09-27-2007 06:26:09  
I don't replace the plastic rings anymore. I update them to the later EID setup and eliminate the problem - only costs an extra $30. Stanadyne changed over to the EID in 1985.

Regardless of what you do, usually - any pump that's old enough, or been run long enough to trash the ring will have other issues that ought to be addressed while you have it apart. The brass drive-bushing in front is just about always worn and only costs $8 to replace (called a pilot-tube). Metering valve is often worn also and cost around $12.

That being said, as a Deere mechanic, I replaced an awful of those rings - out in the woods or field - with no special tools at all except for the 6-toothed Bristol wrench for the head screw.

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msb

09-27-2007 06:40:10
76.2.85.239



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to rwskinner, 09-27-2007 06:26:09  
Pump has to be torn down. Its a very good idea to check the protruding rivets the seal attaches to if the pump has been run for a long time with the seal broken. I have seen some rivets completely worn through. Use a small pair of external snap ring pliers to expand the plactic when installing the seal.Hold the pliers at about a 45 degree angle when slipping the seal over the rivets.



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George in Georgia

09-11-2007 09:54:57
205.145.233.1



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to jdemaris, 09-11-2007 07:36:21  
Uhhhh, too late, I've completely rebuilt the pump except for that cam screw. The parts (seals, rings) were purchased over eBay and fit perfectly.

If current contacts for a cam screw don't respond, I will begin to try to find this locally and will use that Spaco number as well.

Thanks!



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Mike M

09-11-2007 05:09:45
24.140.28.219



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to George in Georgia, 09-10-2007 15:38:21  
How did you ever get that advance piston back in and compress that piston ring ???? Do you have that special tool ????



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George in Georgia

09-11-2007 06:58:53
205.145.233.1



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to Mike M, 09-11-2007 05:09:45  
I used a piece of package strapping, that woven nylon or fiberglass stuff, with a regular hose clamp over that. It gently compress the spring, and then a few taps with a wooden dowel pushed it in. Oh, and the entire pump and sub-assemblies were first lubed with liberal amounts of Mobil 1 0-30 motor oil.



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Mike M

09-11-2007 07:44:59
24.140.28.219



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to George in Georgia, 09-11-2007 06:58:53  
I tried thinking of various ideas,but it was recessed down inside a lip I think ? Not room for the hose clamp worm part. After I broke one I seeked out a local pump shop and took the piece in to see if they could put it in. After some discussion and snide looks they agreed to put one in for me with the special tool. Well I have to tell you when he broke one on his first attempt that was the greatest feeling of all ! His attitude towards me imediatly changed for the better too.

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msb

09-10-2007 19:18:31
76.2.82.234



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to George in Georgia, 09-10-2007 15:38:21  
Pretty common occurence except they usually snap on disassembly.Usually the only option at that point is saw the advance casting off.You probably cracked the screw when you took it out. They set pretty tight.I always insert the splined wrench in the screw and give it a rap with a hammer.Never broke another after I started doing that. The real early screws had an Allen head slot in them instead of the splined slot.

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George in Georgia

09-11-2007 04:57:11
205.145.233.1



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to msb, 09-10-2007 19:18:31  
You know, I wondered what would you'd have to do to get the thing apart after the cam advance screw broke off.

I have a MIG welder and was planning (hoping/fingers crossed) to insert the Bristol tool into what remains of the cam advance screw crown and weld the Bristol tool into the stub, then back it out.

This is a weakness in the design of this injection pump, is it not?

I've written to Bob with my personal email address. I hope he can supply a couple of new advance screws for a fair price.

After the local John Deere dealer charged me $30 for that small black plastic cap for the rock cover, I decided to seek other routes for parts if possible.

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msb

09-11-2007 07:16:38
76.2.82.234



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to George in Georgia, 09-11-2007 04:57:11  
If you decide to weld the Bristol tool to the screw then I would suggest you apply some anti splatter or grease to the inside of the timing advance bore. There is a hole where the transfer pump pressure oil comes through the check valve/ head locating screw that needs to be protected from welding splatter. The passaage extends out to the piston side of the advance mechanism. How is your drive shaft bushing. If its very bad, you may be almost as well off destroying the housing rather than to weld the Bristol tool and ruin it.

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George in Georgia

09-11-2007 10:07:28
205.145.233.1



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 condition of pump in reply to msb, 09-11-2007 07:16:38  
This is the first John Deere tractor I've ever owned (found it in the weeds of some rural property the wife and I bought severa months ago). It is a 1967 JD 2020, and other than extreme weathering of the paint, steerint wheel and tires, it seems to be in pretty good shape. The clock only shows 4,574 hours.

As can be imagined, this is also my first Roosa-Master fuel injection pump rebuild, but the internals looked immaculate. It's possible the pump had previously been rebuilt, don't know. The rebuild manual gave advice on how to check for wear and I didn't find anything to be concerned about.

All that said, again, this is the first pump I've rebuilt and it's untested so I may be back to square one as soon as I get the replacement parts then try to crank the tractor.

(fingers crossed)

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msb

09-11-2007 20:50:35
76.2.82.234



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 Re: condition of pump in reply to George in Georgia, 09-11-2007 10:07:28  
Looks like you are doing a good job. I would have liked to had you as a student years ago.Its best to keep all parts in diesel oil before assembly and in the cleanest enviornment you can find.Never lay the parts on paper. Paper lint can really cause problems.An aluminum 8x8 baking pan filled with diesel fuel works well for keeping the parts in.Use plenty of grease on the o-rings and be sure to not twist or roll the o-rings into place. A centering tool for the Bristol head screw can be made with an old plug that fits the hole, but I never use one.A compression tool for the timing advance piston can also be home made using an old piston plug since you have a lathe. Cut the inner end off and then turn a nice taper on the inside.I agree with John. Get the governor weight retainer that does away with the plastic retainer seal. Just be sure to etch a timing mark in exactly the same location. I put the shaft in a vice and install the old retainer on top of it and then use some sort of locating device to locate the old timing mark.Then use that to locate the mark you will scribe on the new retainer. If for some reason you use the plastic seal, a small pair of snap ring pliers works best to install the seal with.Don't mind me if your book covers all this.

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Bob

09-10-2007 19:40:17
69.178.229.154



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to msb, 09-10-2007 19:18:31  
Having the Stanadyne tool that screws into the plug hole, and supports the ball screw while you're wrenching on it helps, as well.



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dwag

09-11-2007 18:38:16
216.24.118.135



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to Bob, 09-10-2007 19:40:17  
I agree. The head of the cam screw looks like a normal allen head, but is cut different, requiring the special tool form Roosa Master.



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S.E. Ohio Farmall

09-10-2007 18:33:22
66.76.194.2



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to George in Georgia, 09-10-2007 15:38:21  
Hate to butt in here, but where did you get the rebuild manual for the injection pump? I have been looking for one for a long time and haven't had any luck and my local pump rebuilder is not so happy to give me any info on how to get one



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George in Georgia

09-10-2007 18:59:25
199.44.20.240



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 Here is the exact manual I used... in reply to S.E. Ohio Farmall, 09-10-2007 18:33:22  
...and it is very very good!

http://www.jdheritage.net/DeerelyDeparted/Items/2087.asp



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lonzo

09-10-2007 18:19:32
64.22.246.149



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 Re: Photos of Roosa-Master Pump Rebuild and a question... in reply to George in Georgia, 09-10-2007 15:38:21  
I have gone to the salvage yard and picked up one that was locked up and used for parts, It cost me $35 and well worth it.



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George in Georgia

09-10-2007 15:40:29
199.44.20.240



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 Another photo in reply to George in Georgia, 09-10-2007 15:38:21  

This shows the screw before it was reinstalled then broke.

Advise on where to get a new one (or two) will be appreciated.

Thanks!



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Bob

09-10-2007 16:14:45
69.178.229.154



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 Re: Another photo in reply to George in Georgia, 09-10-2007 15:40:29  
George, If you can't find a local pump shop that will sell you one, email me. I have them, new or used.

Depot Parts, in Wisconsin, accessable through your local Deere dealer, has 14 in stock, Deere part # R36646. That is another option, if the local dealer is willing to get them from Depot Parts for you.



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George in Georgia

09-10-2007 16:44:26
199.44.20.240



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 How do I email you? in reply to Bob, 09-10-2007 16:14:45  
Or you can email me: accurizer@NOSPAMyahoo.com

Of course, remove the 'nospam'.

Thanks!



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Bob

09-10-2007 17:55:50
69.178.229.154



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 Re: How do I email you? in reply to George in Georgia, 09-10-2007 16:44:26  
George,

Did you get my email? Sorry I forgot to post mine.

bigcoulee@hotmail.com



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